The Burn.Life Blog

Why Doesn't The Org Just Cancel Burning Man 2020 and Roll DGS Tix to 2021?

3/26/2020

Note: Marian Goodell, the Org's CEO, confirmed for me that my conclusions are essentially correct, and called out this article as worth reading during her address to open the Virtual Theme Camp Symposium the morning of 3/28). She's also replied to a bunch of people in the comments below.

I see a lot of Burners online asking why the Org doesn't simply cancel BM 2020 and roll DGS tickets over to 2021? Cancel the event, and come back in 2021 in full force while making everybody whole who bought tickets this year. Sounds simple and good right?

The general feeling seems to be that they must be greedy a-holes to not promise refunds or rolled-forward tickets if they cancel it, but it really isn't that simple, which is what this post is about. The Org faces a very tough financial situation, which I'm going to lay out for you as best as I can. I think it's helpful to understand where they're coming from as you form an opinion about how they should handle it Burning Man 2020.

Is this what Black Rock City 2020 will look like?

What Is the Problem With Just Rolling Tickets Over To 2021 or Refunding?

The first thing to understand is that whether they refund DGS (and FOMO) tickets already purchased or whether they roll them over to next year doesn't matter much in the sense that those two scenarios are more or less the same financially. Rolling tickets over is possibly a little better for them than refunding, since money now is better than money a year from now, and refunding would require re-selling the same number of tickets already refunded, which incurs additional costs from whichever company they select to run the ticket sale.

In both cases, the Org only gets revenue from one full ticket sale, while having to operate for two years on that one year's revenue. More on that below....

The Burning Man Org's Finances

To start with, I'm using info here that anyone has access to. None of this is private or privileged. It's all published online in their Form 990 that they file with the IRS every year. It's the equivalent of a tax return for their non-profit. The last Form 990 we have available to us is 2018's, as the form for 2019's fiscal year wouldn't have been filed or published yet.

Revenue

Let's look at their revenue first, as this is very straight-forward.

$43.4 million from ticket sales, water sales, fuel sales, burner express, etc. These are all tied directly to holding the event, and are listed under Program Service revenue on the 990.
$2 million from contributions and grants. Donations to the Org basically.
$1.1 in other assorted revenue (speaking fees, special events like, I believe, Artumnal, etc).

Total revenue: $46.6 million.

Costs

Now let's look at the costs they incur each year, and try to estimate what portion they could save this year if they cancelled Burning Man. If you'd rather look at the spreadsheet I used for this, you can find it here.

Category	Amount	What % Can Be Saved	$$ Potentially Saved	Comment
Payroll, Benefits, Payroll Taxes	$16,700,000	40%	$6,680,000	See spreadsheet for methodology.
Contractors	$5,300,000	65%	$3,445,000	Water trucks, traffic mitigation, porta servicing, legal, accounting, etc.
Permits & Fees	$4,100,000	90%	$3,690,000	This is the annual fee to the BLM as well as property and sales taxes in Washoe and SF counties and some various other fees.
Equipment Rental	$3,600,000	90%	$3,240,000	BRC requires a lot of heavy equipment.
Materials, Supplies, Office expenses	$3,000,000	50%	$1,500,000	A whole range of supplies for their offices and the playa.
Grants	$2,200,000	40%	$880,000	Honorariums to artists, grants to other organizations, etc.
Ticketing expenses	$2,100,000	50%	$1,050,000	Ticketing vendor + credit card fees.
Rents/Leases	$2,000,000	0%	$0	Office space in SF, Gerlach mainly.
Travel, Conferences, Conventions	$900,000	80%	$720,000	These are nice-to-haves, not must-haves.
Insurance	$870,000	50%	$435,000	Insurance at the event and at their physical workplaces.
Depreciation	$630,000	0%	$0	Don't worry if you don't understand it - it's not a major component.
Miscellaneous	$2,600,000	60%	$1,560,000	Things like the BRC Commissary and maintaining vehicles and machinery.
Total	$44,000,000		$23,200,000

So, by the above very rough estimates, it would cost them about $20.8 million ($44m-$23.2m) to run for a year w/o laying off permanent staff and with cancelling Burning Man. However, since I have no insight into how far ahead they have to lock in some of the BM expenses, and since some surely are locked in, I'm adding 20% to that figure to account for those expenses they can't get back in case of a cancellation.

That gives us a figure of $24.96 million to run the Org for a year if they cancelled Burning Man.

That is a revenue shortfall of $21,260,000 based on:

(1 year of ticket sales, 2 years of their "assorted other revenue" and 1 year of grants) - (1 year of normal expenses and 1 year of the ~$25m number for their expenses if they cancelled Burning Man now).
I left it at one year of grants to highlight the fact that potentially their only way out of this if they cancel is relying on the generosity of we the community and because I have no idea if people would be as generous if BM was cancelled.

Cash on Hand

Of course, the Org also maintains an operating reserve of cash, like any responsible organization would. At the end of the 2018 year, the Org had about $14m in cash or short-term investments.

(This may sound like a lot, but for an organization that spends $44m/year, it's not. A typical guideline for a nonprofit might be to maintain a cash cushion equal to 3-6 months of operating expenses. $14m for the Org is just under 4 months of average operating expenses.)

However, they also had $3.5m in accounts payable, which effectively reduces their functional cash on hand to $11.5m.

Some of these numbers are likely different at the end of 2019 vs the end of 2018, but we these are the numbers we have.

The Org's Cash Shortfall If It Cancels 2020 is likely to be in the range of $10 million.

Since I'm estimating a $21.2m revenue shortfall based on the above numbers, and since the Org had approx $11.5m in (cash-payables) on hand in their last 990, that means that even if they used up their entire operating reserve, they would still be in the hole $9.76 million dollars.

Even if their entire staff could work for free for the year, that would barely cover it and still leave them with no cash cushion.

I think it goes without saying that if they have to cancel, the Org will have to make staff cuts, but those cuts would have to be deep and hard to make much of a difference, and then what? You can't just decimate an organization and expect it to come back swinging at full strength a year later. Institutional knowledge and expertise is lost when that happens. At best, layoffs blunt the cash shortfall some, but there's no way they can lay off enough people to fix the problem.

Conclusion and Possible Solutions

I hope this has helped shed some light on the tough financial position the Org is in. Nobody saw the corona virus coming, and no, they don't have insurance that's going to save them if the BLM forces them to cancel because of corona.

I'm not advocating for any particular outcome here. It doesn't affect me personally - I'd decided last fall I was taking this year off after 10 years in a row, and pushed our camp's DGS allocation off to next year as a result, so I'm not sitting on a ticket or planning to buy one this year.

I'm just trying to show that it's not so easy to say, "Just roll the tickets over to 2021" as if that doesn't cause enormous financial difficulties for the Org.

Even if they depleted their entire cash cushion (which is a terrible idea unless there is literally no other choice), they'd still need to come up with about $10 million from...somewhere.

So where could that money come from? Here's what I can come up with:

Wealthy donors. I think if they can find people to cough up $6.5m for Fly Ranch they'd be able to find people to cover a $10-$20m shortfall (depending on how much of their cash cushion they want to save) to literally save Burning Man. That said, I don't know how long it took them to find the donors to back Fly Ranch. It could have been years, and they aren't going to have years.
Taking out a bridge loan to cover that shortfall? Given their thin margins that seems like a very dangerous idea if they could even find a lender that's willing.
Greatly increase ticket prices for new tickets sold in 2021 (ones that wouldn't have been rolled over). They'd have to really jack them to make up a $10-$20m shortfall though given that almost half of them have already been sold. To make up a $15m shortfall, they'd have to slightly less than double the main sale ticket prices, and that's only if the main sale doesn't happen so that main sale tix aren't rolled forward.
Commercialize Burning Man. There's no question a bunch of big brands would pay big bucks to use Black Rock City as a backdrop for their tv commercials or whatever. I think there's also very little question that most of us, including the folks at the Org, would rather Burning Man just die than take this route though.
I'm sure some people will point out that Fly Ranch is worth more now than the $6.5m paid, and that it could be sold to generate some cash. That's true, but given the nature and remoteness of the land, it'd take some real time to find a buyer willing to pay anything like that.

Anyway, that's what I've got on the subject. I hope it's helpful as you decide how to feel about however the Org ends up handling what I think is near-certain cancellation of the event.

I'll tell you one thing: I don't envy their position right now. I think they have very tough decisions ahead.

Ken Bagel

3/27/2020 05:45:28 pm

very informative about the organization. shocked at the ticket seller percentage. 50,000 tickets with even a $10/ticket handling/mailing /electronic ticket which seems high given the exclusivity make the cost around $500,000. A nice chunk of change for mailing tickets. 4 times that amount for 2 million seems quite a bit excessive. the rest makes sense..sort of

Dr. Yes link

3/31/2020 10:18:41 am

I suspect that credit card fees are wrapped up in that. That'll be a couple percent, at least, of sales. At 2%, $880k goes to the credit card companies. At 2.9%, about 1.2 million of that.

RStar

3/27/2020 06:20:38 pm

Insightful analysis. Much more thought provoking than the BS rattling around Facecrack. Thank you.

I did purchase DGTS and am sitting on $1200 tickets. Honestly, if my ticket investment is a total loss BMorg can consider my future participation (estimated at $15k of art and interaction, and 10+ years of experience) a total loss as well. The lack of transparency, communication and empathy from the BMorg is almost more disheartening than the financial loss. Such is corporate American I suppose.

Perhaps it is time for a systemic change on both our parts.

Tgs

3/27/2020 08:53:53 pm

I feel the same. I’m in for two tix and a vehicle pass through the DGS and $1,200 is more than I can just eat right now or leave on a friendly “loan” til next year. The faith and goodwill of the longtime burner community (the heart of DGS ticket holders) is priceless and thus merits thoughtfulness, transparency, and respect.

KELLI c BINDER

3/28/2020 07:24:50 am

Well said. I totally agree with you

builder

3/28/2020 08:53:49 am

I am also in for two tix and a vehicle pass through DGS, over $1200. The email announcing my DGS seed:

"The DGS is our way to show our appreciation for your outstanding past contributions. You are not obligated to bring a project to BRC this year; the DGS is all about our saying THANKS for what you’ve already shared."

You can't offer something as a way of thanks, have that thing be obviously injurious in retrospect, and then not offer to take it back in good faith.

In the context of my allocation, if the org does not refund the $1200, they're basically walking back "appreciation" for work already done.

The org's finances have never been my responsibility. I build amazing stuff for burning man at large enough personal financial cost and commitment completely unrelated to ticket cost.

The org needs to refund DGS tickets because I already take a "loss" on what I give to that event, and if they don't put it on the money is not theirs to hold.

That there is any question about whether the money will be refunded at all has caused me to question why I do what I do for Burning Man.

If Rstar and tgs are also real contributing, longtime burners, the org's waffling over DGS refunds is a bigger threat to the event than the financial shortfall described in this article.

I was sitting at eggs bar early one morning a few years ago with notable long timers, and the discussion turned to the real currency of burning man: ability.

Some post-ipo tech bro can always write a check to bail out the burn and take some board seat for it. You can't buy people like me to come back and make the city what it has been.

Jessica

3/28/2020 10:10:42 am

Their T&C clearly states that tickets are non-refundable. The org is trying to figure out refunds, but the whole point of the post is that it's tough and has implications for the future of Burning Man's ability to continue at all. They're facing a pretty existential set of decisions here. I have also purchased DGS and paid for them with disposable income. Nobody saw this coming, but it seems really unfair to peg the responsibility on the BM org because folks spent money for a vacation and now want it back. Airlines have not been so kind with their non-refundable tickets, and I know many folks who have been screwed out of tickets, though lately many are able to transfer to other flights. I registered for a conference that has since been canceled, and they can only refund 75% of my ticket, and that is only after negotiating with venues to let them hold the conference 2 years from now and clearing out their cash reserves. They're begging for donations. SXSW isn't offering refunds, but also deferring for future events. BM Org seems to be waiting out the news, but it doesn't look good. Any efforts on their part to figure out a way to transfer tickets to future events or possibly issue refunds will have to be accompanied with downsizing their staff, and that will hurt, too.

Mehr

3/28/2020 12:52:39 pm

Jessica, is not "just holiday". Not to mention that every human being deserves one to keep the mental balance... some people have to cut out on a lot of things to be able to meet with friends at Playa! And a lot of people lost their income sources! So 1200$ is to survive or not

Jessica Murray

3/28/2020 02:42:34 pm

Mehr, of course, it is deeper than a vacation, but what happened to radical self-reliance? If people are using savings that should sustain them in an event that they lose income, their priorities might not be totally balanced. It's an uncomfortable truth, I realize that. I still don't think it is BM org's responsibility to replace income for people who agreed to and accepted a no-refunds policy. It is too early to know how this will end, but they have expressed a willingness to try to find a solution if they ultimately cancel. I'm sure they are grappling with how this is affecting low-income burners, and I sincerely hope it factors into their decisions if the worst happens. Ultimately, the government should be providing support for everyone who cannot earn money at this time.

Buck

3/28/2020 06:27:38 pm

I'm not sure I totally agree. Burning Man IS transparent about its finances. Granted, you have to actually read their financial statement each year, but not taking the time to do that is not on them. They are burners, too, and deserve to be helped if we can. As with other canceled events, they may try to refund part of it and ask ticket holders to donate the amount. That's fair.

Builder

3/28/2020 08:04:22 pm

Jessica, sounds like you have plenty of money the way you mention your disposable income and low income burners and your conference losses. Why don’t you donate your money if they offer partial refunds?

As for sxsw not providing refunds, that’s a terrible example. Sxsw is the most exploited corporate infested brofest festival you could imagine. Of course they didn’t provide refunds. But you know what? People charged back their credit cards anyway and it was effective because you can’t reasonably charge people for events you don’t put on. No matter what your no refunds policy is.

And regarding airlines not offering refunds, that is a load of day old carp. Are we comparing the org to delta airlines now? Man what a thing.

And Radical Reliance? How about the org practices what it preaches with its 16M $1.3M/ month spend on employees and salary. I guess non org participants need to be more self reliant than these folks despite the fact they are putting the city together with NO salary, no contracted payments. Oh no, these folks just get access to buy full price tickets.

Your comments embody those of an org shill, if not a sock puppet for the bland public relations consultant vetted comments coming from the leadership of this event.

Andy

3/29/2020 10:51:09 am

None of us want to eat $1,200 in tix and VPs (I'm in the same boat) but the argument that any of us "can't afford to" is senseless. We spent the money expecting entertainment in August. We might not get it. But none of us had expected any financial return on it.

At this point I am the (not-so) proud owner of 6 non-refundable RT tickets to Hawaii plus a week's 75% non-refundable lodging to take my family to our son's college graduation, which of course is not happening. We can still go to Hawaii if we are willing to quarantine for the 1st 14 days of our 9-day trip. My airlines tickets will be useable next year if we choose to go, essentially a free loan to Southwest Airlines.

Yes, it sucks, but the money was spent one way or the other. I can't and don't claim that the partial or complete loss of the entertainment that I had purchased is a financial hardship - that was my choice when I bought the BM and Hawaii tickets.

And seriously, fellow Burners, I'm not being snarky. I'm just trying to suggest that even if the Org can't refund your tickets, that failure cannot (mathematically) by the source of any financial problems.

Sprinkman

3/29/2020 01:26:07 pm

Tgs...Well stated... I agree

3/30/2020 07:05:12 pm

Builder, I'm not a member of the org, or their shill, nor am I excessively wealthy. I dreamed of going to BM for years before I could afford it, and would donate part of my ticket if it helped keep it alive. I wasn't comparing BM org to airlines or SXSW, I was just giving examples of how refunds on nonrefundable tickets are working out in other scenarios at the moment.

3/30/2020 09:24:38 pm

Jessica,

Then you aren’t paying attention to what you’re trying to “keep alive.”

The org is refusing to take the same swift cost cutting measures everyone else is dealing with.

There is simply no justification for them to hold this money when the office rent alone is $100k a month. The org should be refusing to pay, and packing up immediately. Everyone should take a cut, particularly Marian who should be leading by example.

The thing about the examples you gave is that the policies of these airlines and the festival are not reasonable or fair. That’s why the credit card companies are standing by the consumers instead of merchants when these are being charged back.

The reason those are bad examples is the airlines and sxsw are not ethically moral Organizations that process some kind of greater good. They are business-driven entities.

The odd thing is the org is trying to protect its community. It’s paid staff community. Not the people who make burning man what it is.

3/31/2020 05:05:01 pm

Builder, I think you have a rosier view of what's actually happening in terms of extracting refunds via disputing charges. You are only guaranteed a refund on a flight that is canceled, so if you decide that you don't want to risk it or an event you planned to attend was canceled, and you don't need to fly, too bad. SXSW is offering a deferral to future events and a discount for another future additional year, probably arguing that it is a postponement. https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/coronavirus-canceled-events/

Walking away from a lease is a great way to end up in court and potentially spend more on legal fees AND be out office space.100K per month for a 25,000 sq. ft. space is about 33% lower than average for space in SF. I Googled that, the average is $80/sq. ft. per year.

Why shouldn't they want to protect their paid staff community? BM wouldn't happen without them either.

Njyx

3/31/2020 07:33:59 am

The org has a really hard problem to solve + any of the solutions is going to cause debate. I think it's a little harsh to say "lack of transparency". There's a possibility that org (and burning man) essentially fails forever because of this. I think it's worth a bit of trust that they are looking at all the possible options and will communicate when they can + ask for feedback when they can.

Green lady.

3/27/2020 06:46:14 pm

RStar. Good post. 15 years for me. I also have 2 tickets which I gift. Future participation for me is about the community & what I call the " Burner Way, "not the Bmorg for me, despite whatever choice the Bmorg makes.

JaimeNG

3/27/2020 07:00:29 pm

Thanks for your good analysis. It seems to me, that it’s possible with the ticket sales thus far they could survive until 2021. Of course they would have to do some refunds to people in desperate situations. Then the tickets remaining could be sold in 2021. These non-DGS tickets could be sold at a much higher price. The artists and serious theme camps will be there. Let the newbies pay more for all these years of Building this.

Joe

3/29/2020 02:37:20 pm

That’s a really narrow view of general ticket sales. My group has burners that have been going for 20 years and do the main ticket sales . Saying the newbies should pay it is ignorant of who all the ticket buyers are in the main sale.

spilboi

3/29/2020 04:32:42 pm

"The artists and serious theme camps will be there. Let the newbies pay more for all these years of Building this."

WOW, how crass and elitist of you.

Milton Foust

3/27/2020 07:17:03 pm

This reminds me of Leto, God-Emperor of Dune; when the bridge collapsed, he fell into the river and disintegrated into thousands of sandworms, each with a tiny fragment of his consciousness. Maybe something like that is about to happen to the org. Shai-hulud!

Dr. Yes

3/27/2020 10:51:46 pm

It'd be a hilarious Burn if we had to all walk without rhythm to avoid attracking the sandworms!

Bell link

3/30/2020 11:58:45 am

Dr. Yes, I kind of love you.

Maid Jackrabbit

3/28/2020 01:05:26 pm

Well. This is why I am unafraid should the event cancel. From great change comes new challenge and opportunities.

Flounder

3/27/2020 07:39:34 pm

Make the refund optional! Let the community vote to save it or not with their money. They can keep my money and I look forward to going next year.

Sheck

3/27/2020 07:48:13 pm

The virus needs 14 days quarantine. Have the event but make it known that you can’t leave for 14 days after the temple burns, so plan accordingly. Actually, to play it safe, let’s go with 21 days after the temple burns.

SimpleMoon

3/27/2020 10:48:47 pm

I know you’re trying to be funny... how about flipping this around and having everyone quarantined 14days before the event and maybe even have drive through tests in Reno and you’d have to show beg results with your ticket...

Bryan

3/29/2020 01:05:11 pm

Honestly, it's not a terrible idea. Have people quarantine in surrounding smaller cities for 2-3 weeks before the event. Show proof of quarantine and a proof of 2 negative tests. I'm sure they'll find plenty of people willing to do it.

SpilBoi

3/29/2020 08:54:09 pm

So we pawn off the risk to a surrounding city? Thats your plan??? Really???

Jonsi

3/31/2020 10:15:44 am

Yeah no. As a person from Reno I’m going to tell you this is a horrible idea and pretty sure one that wouldn’t be welcomed much by the people living in N NV

Chris Cline

3/27/2020 07:58:34 pm

Good analysis and fairly presented, thanks. If you’ve never run a festival (or equivalent) it’s easy to say “they could just do...”. It’s never that easy or they would have just done it.
A couple thoughts I have in response to this are:
1) it points to the need for regional burns to have a rainy day fund equal to one year’s production cost, just for situations like this. Regionals are also known to have other catastrophes, such as suddenly losing access to a festival site, being refused a permit by local governments, etc. that Burning Man never has. Production costs are less for Regionals because few have paid staff, so this is a more attainable goal.
2) you laid out some good solutions but the good thing is that they aren’t mutually exclusive- the solution could be a combination of those measures, plus some others.
With some good analysis and creative thinking I’m hoping the Org can get through this and I hope people support them in those efforts.

3/28/2020 01:07:35 pm

Thanks Chris, we are on it. And, I'd say truthfully I think it will be a combination of options. We are also researching disaster relief loans to see if we qualify.

Horton Connor

3/28/2020 09:01:37 pm

Since event sells out in five seconds on web site - org doesn't care about reaction to strict enforcement of no refunds policy which was announced to everyone. Instead of five seconds to sell out in 2021 it will be 14 seconds.

Factoid

3/27/2020 08:25:55 pm

Many years ago Burning Man was financially in trouble. That year they offered special tickets at a higher price and if you purchased them you’d get into the event with that ticket in perpetuity. They could offer something like that again. You could get your ticket refunded OR you could let them keep the money for this year AND pay some additional dollars and get a forever ticket. Just a thought.

tony link

3/28/2020 02:55:59 am

Sadly, not our problem. Refund our money and figure it out

Clanwitch

3/28/2020 06:23:09 am

Hey, Tony. With much love and respect, fuckin really? Much of the point is for us to figure it out, radically. The BORG isn’t some ninny daycare designed to usher a specific experience. Let’s participate and build it out together, eh mate? I’m curious about your expectations for the coming burn. And for the record, next year was better. -clanwitch

3/28/2020 01:14:59 pm

Hardly agree with you, Tony. If we are all going to behave like a community then that is what we are. The ticket refund policy is "no refunds". So, technically having a ticket in your hands and no event is actually your problem. Not mine. "me" being Marian. My position is that we're a community and we need all of us to survive and thrive. So, i am looking at solutions and options that help us all level up in this crisis. I am hoping to set the stage so those that need a full refund get a full refund, and those that can take a partial refund do that, and for those who are generous and understand the work the organization does year round and can afford to support us I would graciously accept their contribution for 2020 operating costs so we can not gut the organization (which is a carefully chosen community of dedicated public servants to the culture) which would make it very hard to bring back in 7-9 months to start for 2021. I don't know if rolling over the ticket as an option works with the other options as well. But, i'm looking all suggestions. The goal for the Project isn't to build Black Rock City. The goal and mission are around helping nurture the culture in Black Rock City and beyond. So, the ticket supports the efforts of the Project. Tony, I do so wish you really had more of the Burning Man spirit of Communal Effort. It's one of the better principles.

Scott

3/28/2020 10:00:54 pm

I suggest refocusing the Org on truly supporting the regional network instead of producing BRC is the best path forward.

Spilboi.

3/29/2020 04:41:04 pm

Tony has a point, We the community trust you with our funds to run the event. tho pay for the venue, infrastructure and enablement. We trust you to promote, support and cherish art. We do not appreciate even entertaining the 'lets keep the cash and then sell new tickets next year' as a viable plan. Either use (OUR) money to build on next year or refund it. Simple. Whether its legal to keep it and just shut down it's NOT MORAL! The community IS a community and Toni is part of it. SHAME on you for dissing on him. He feels the pain of the possible loss of this annual pilgrimage just like the rest of us, He is worried and angry and has EVERY right to be. I always thought the BMORG is not some CABAL so stop acting just like one for once.

Shitfuck

3/30/2020 12:23:53 am

Fuck you Marian. The bullshit irony from you is, once again, waaay too much. That money is the peoples money. With out the honest-money paying participants, along with Larry’s good idea, the Burn, the Borg, yes, even You would be worth jack shit. Having a ticket but no event is your problem, not mine!? Wtf!? Even tho, yes, thats your policy, ever hear of doing the right fucking thing? Some people during this economic crisis could use the money they paid you in good faith before this became a problem that you would deliver the goods. Can’t throw an event because of a pandemic? That’s actually your fucking problem, not one that should be passed to people of whom without their financial input, would not be possible. Hold a fundraiser to make up the windfall after you return all the money and get the rest from your abundance of private donors and obvious off the books investors that have peppered the borgs past. You know, just like everyone else in communal effort. Good luck getting people to give you more money after they feel stolen from. Smart business solution. (Rolls eyes harder than everyone who has ever done drugs out there collectively). You think these people owe you that money if you can’t provide the service even if it is a supposed “act of god”? Bullshit. Straight up shady drug dealers right there. You cunts are no different than the supposed beast you purport to get away from. Way to completely undo the entirety of the communal effort principal you sell so freely while talking so cavalierly about essentially stealing peoples money. No refunds... fuck off. If cash is such a concern, quit writing your entire fucking life off on burning mans expenses. I have been to the burn about as many times as you have, and if this response is really where YOU are at, then communal effort is fucking toast and so is “your” event. Fucking phoneys. Rip to a great idea, 30+ years ago. If this is what it all comes down to, I hope the event does get cancelled and all of you so called mystics are forced to re-examine your shit and go find a fresh idea and find new art. Not my problem we wont give your money back... ha! What an asshole.

3/30/2020 08:44:07 am

While I can't abide by the obscenities, the sentiment expressed above is real. Maid Jackrabbit's gliding through comments describing a $100,000 a month office space without an even passing mention of perhaps this is not a reasonable expense in the first place is very telling of how the folks in charge of Burning Man live their lives.

Instead, they suggest "the community" that builds the city keep paying their salaries and office space while this community has their own jobs taken away and workplaces shuttered? The gall!

It is as though they have never had to build art before, or repair other people's bikes for them. Or if they have, it is long forgotten as they have been swimming in gold coins Scrooge McDuck style for so long they have no idea what it is like.

What the coronavirus has done is shine a harsh light on things that were out of balance. The insane demand for Burning Man tickets prior to the pandemic is one example of something absolutely out of balance.

What's so telling is what the leadership or person at the center of the thing out of balance says or behaves when under the examination. Any previous assumptions of benevolence or quality of decision making are suddenly up for reconsideration.

I had no real problem with "the org" prior to this, I figured they do their thing and the burn it keeps going. But this thing, what should have been a minor decision, has caused me to re-examine everything I thought I liked about Burning Man, and why I have given it so much time, money and effort.

The entire posture of the leadership of this thing is wrong, and I have zero confidence anyone will lead from below to right this. Not only will I get my money back for this DGS thing, I won't be coming back to Burning Man.

Kathleen

4/3/2020 03:46:32 pm

What is Burning Man doing to help the nation deal with this pandemic?

This is actually the only question. Not do we get to go have fun on the playa. Not do we get to continue doing nice art. Can we step up and make a difference during a global pandemic where the nation has not even begun to do what it takes to put an end to the pandemic? Where medical professionals are completely overwhelmed, where our "government" is still pitting states against one another to bid up the price of lifesaving materials required by doctors and nurses? People are dying. Not enough PPE. What the fuck is Burning Man doing to step up?

Pandemic.

Millions of deaths.

In America too, you know.

4/3/2020 03:49:54 pm

I am sorry to say you all sound like narcissists. What about the global effing pandemic?

who cares if we get to go to the playa?

Global. Pandemic.

Hello?

4/10/2020 08:36:31 am

Kathleen: No one is saying the Global Pandemic is a small issue or not worth of attention. This discussion is not about that.

Look up False Dilemma / False Dichotomy.

3/28/2020 08:56:39 am

I personally have over @1,200.00 out of my pocket right now for 2 Tics and 1 Vehicle pass... If this event is cancelled I want my money refunded including all associated fees. To give me tics for next year is insanity with this killer virus going around I have no clue if I will be walking the Planet next year so much for a promise of next year. BM is a Business... you have to roll with the punches... REFUNDS...YES.... PROMISES... NO.

Toger Craig

4/28/2020 12:42:39 pm

Sorry guys they got your money and they ain’t giving it bac

Xtraslky

3/28/2020 10:21:09 am

I see in your spreadsheet that many of the figures you used are just guesses. Why are you sharing this info based on inaccurate figures? Very disappointing.

Roy (TheWiz) Trammell

3/28/2020 11:26:16 am

I have 15 years in a row, $1200 DGS down, an eye-watering sum already spent on this year's honorarium project (my second). I hope and expect they will honor my DGS, and honorarium next year. I'll eat the (considerable) interest on the art expenses. I'm building my art at home without the usual volunteer help because I already bought the materials, I seem to have some time on my hands, and the work is therapeutic. If I survive the next few months (I'm 70). I'll find something local to do with the art until BM2021. I can't address how the Org will survive a dead year. We are all struggling through it. I just know I can't throw any more money at it myself. Be safe everyone, stay at home, and whatever gods there be help us.

Patchez

3/28/2020 12:11:41 pm

One way or another, they'll have to make that call. General sale is in ~ 2 weeks, so not that much time left.
Obviously outdated & obsolete ticketing system that costs $2mil has to go. Maybe some cuts to $2mil office expense are due as well. Lots of folks are getting laid off - if the event is cancelled now, orgs might follow the trend for a few months - save some $ on payroll.
Of course nobody (besides ourselves) cares about what we write here - so it is more like a vent for our emotions and other thoughts of no value.
G'luck to all..

Maid Jackrabbit Marian

3/28/2020 01:27:15 pm

Hi Patches: Since i respect Burn Life and Matt I actually did read this when he sent it to me last night. And, he's not far off the mark. I'm here reading comments and replying. General sale will likely be delayed announcement on Monday. Registration starts on April 1, so we will be announcing the sale, which brings up the refund question which brings up the event happening question. And, we don't have a lot of answers. So we are answering one question at a time based upon the most urgent one in front of us. And, meanwhile looking at contingency planning, managing finances, cutting expenses and salaries and staff, donors etc. OH, and along the way we had to hand over $1.9million to the BLM on March 10th, so we are already managing that relationship. Well, let's say we've been debating with them since October and again in December about a regulation that they've never enforced that would require the companies that we hire to help build our infrastructure to surrender 3% of their gross to the BLM.

That's basically adding an additional 3% onto our costs. $10m of subcontractors means $300K, then they decided they want to build their own compound, something we took over 5 years ago because we did it cheaper, faster and with fewer errors after they tried for years to make it happen for themselves. New administrator comes along and they decide that it's a conflict of interest for us to build the BLM compound and an attorney in Washington DC agreed and BAM what was $200,000 is gonna cost $500,000 or more. Yeah, they are trying to put us out of business. And, then covid comes along. So, we are fighting the survival from all sides.

So yea. We're all in it. I've already contacted our landlord in SF to ask for a rent reduction since if i have to gut the organization we won't need to go to an office. I don't plan to gut the organization, on the contrary, if we have to cancel the event we'll pivot and turn our energies to doing the same old productive stuff we do, but in new ways. That's the way we roll. Thanks for listening. I'm listening too. You can always email me: marian@burningman.org. I'll answer most reasonable emails. Mean ones go into the circular bin. Have a good weekend, friends. We'll get through this. Together is way better than apart.

3/29/2020 04:48:31 pm

"And, then covid comes along. So, we are fighting the survival from all sides."

As are we some of whom have even less that $1200 left for the next few months.

Odd question, if the main event IDS cancelled, that would free up How much in fees related to the site usage? (Police/Insurance/Fire-Med) Building fees. Seems if you suspend grants you make the shortfall. if you want us ALL to put-in for Grants and your salary. GIVE US THE F**KING choice to do that.

also, Why the "F" is ticking still 2 million dollars??? Jesus Solve that already.

Bell Sound link

3/30/2020 12:06:17 pm

Maid J.M., I so appreciate your view that this situation is opportunity, not just crisis. It’s what I’ve said a hundred times already today. Burning man as a culture can certainly survive and reinvent. People who don’t get that are really missing the point. This virus event is utterly life changing, world changing, and it will take a long time to see all the impacts, but one thing is obvious: it will not be what it was before. I can see many ways this will be good, and way better if we actively plan it to be good. Your perspective matters more than anything. I’m very glad to hear it. All best.

Champagne

4/9/2020 05:33:42 pm

Thank MJM. You’re navigating a tough set of circumstances, and I’m grateful for your dedication.

There are no easy answers. The best case scenario given likely outcomes, is that we’re looking at 2021. That means there’s a reliable, safe vaccine. It might also mean having people provide some proof they’ve been vaccinated, if they want to participate. Alternatively, if there’s sufficient progress with testing and therapeutics (i.e., the symptoms of a covid-19 infection are treatable before they become life threatening), then the event can proceed. However, that may also require additional safeguards.

I don’t envy your choices, but am fully supportive of your efforts to reach as good a resolution as circumstances allow. I am grateful for all you do.

John Barleycorn

3/28/2020 01:53:58 pm

One way to save a few pennies would be to do away with tickets (and ticket vendors, shipping costs, etc.) altogether.

How does that work? Well, for at least 10 years, the Lake Eden Arts Festival (kind of like Oregon Country Fair, only in NC), has sent out an email with a barcode to go to everyone who buys a "ticket." Just like going to the symphony (at least in Seattle). When people show up, event staff scans the bar code and gives them a little wristband - easy peasy.

The tickets are beautiful works of art in themselves, but they still might be available at the gate as playa gifts at less cost than what is currently required for a vendor. (I think I remember reading somewhere that the org was locked into a multi-year contract with the vendor, but there might be a way out of that.)

Maid Marian Jackrabbit

3/29/2020 08:47:26 pm

Here is how the ticketing works. We pay the vendor a small fee. Your ticket transaction fee is what they receive. It's a pass through. So, the ticket holders pay the ticket vendor more than we do.

The past ticket vendor for 2019 was new and has a 3-year contract that we can get out of if we need to.

The physical tickets themselves cost less than $1.00 each. We don't feel that passing them out at the gate is the right thing since that causes more of a slowdown at the gate during peak times.

But, all that being said we have internally been discussing ticket processes and possible change. however, right this moment changing the processes isn't the priority.

We have to first decide and announce delay in the main sale, then we decide if the event is cancelled and then we decide on refunds. One thing at a time. Planning contingencies of any or all of them at the same time.

And, i hope everyone reading this is being safe, healthy, staying at home. Cheers

Artifex Felix

3/28/2020 01:05:27 pm

For some reason (maybe an excess of caffeine) I'm feeling unusually optimistic this morning.

First of all, a reasoned analysis of this whole thing leads to only three logical conclusions:

1. There is simply no way the burn can happen until the global health situation has stabilized (like, really stabilized). However, that might happen sooner than we think (Google "Michael Levitt Stanford coronavirus").

Granted, even under the best of conditions, it's hard to imagine BLM or the local authorities allowing this thing to go on in August, but there's always next year.

2. The org has to give back the money to everyone who needs it (i.e., doesn't volunteer to make it a donation). To do otherwise would create such a crisis of confidence and a sense of broken trust that the community as we know it would simply cease to exist. The org knows that.

3. The org isn't going to declare bankruptcy and dissolve. For better or for worse, there are a number of very wealthy people who have affiliated themselves with this project/community/movement, and they won't let that happen.

So there you have it. (BTW, these opinions are solely my own, and do not necessarily represent those of the org. But they might; who knows?)

Lox

3/28/2020 02:14:08 pm

What about, as some other events did, a voucher of the value of your ticket for the following years. BMP keep this year money, and allocated you a 100$ discount for the next 4 years. Everyones happy.

Annetters

3/28/2020 02:59:05 pm

Is this a mistake? $2,000,000 per year for office space between SF and Gerlach. I know rent is expensive in San Francisco but 2 million a year sounds like a typo.

Boyscout X

3/28/2020 09:24:13 pm

Isn't there office space in Reno as well? And what about storage or container spaces?

River Merced

3/31/2020 11:09:53 am

What does office space in Gerlach go for? Are there wads of potential high dollar tenants competing for that space?

Jelly Burner

3/28/2020 03:08:50 pm

Is it feasible to establish the sale of the Fly ranch through shares, with a management company to over see operations?? Say $1000/share @ 10,000 people creates 10 Million dollars in cash. What do I get as a share holder? ability to visit the property (like a timeshare?) or some other value that would be worth it to me, aside from just a $1000 donation with no return. Thoughts???

Awesome

3/29/2020 03:41:18 pm

This is an interesting and partial resolution to the Org’s dilemma. Something I would consider. I also like the idea that if the event is cancelled, and for those with tickets, could see a reduced rate for future events. Kinda like a pre-payment. Only issue here is that if the event folds, people would be out their initial ‘investment’ which, coincides with the No Refund policy.

Marian, thank you so much for choosing to answer these responses and we all know this is a very difficult time for you, the staff, the artist and the world. Keep the constructive conversation going.

3/29/2020 08:51:13 pm

You have an interesting idea that we've been toying with. What if the event is cancelled and we do refund tickets or do a partial refund or people donate the whole ticket. What does that say about future events. Is there a credit or opportunity that comes with making a contribution to the now? We can't make refunds NOW as the event is still moving forward, though delaying some activities while we understand the options and gather data. We aren't full steam ahead. We are actually slowing the boat to a crawl while we figure out the many answers being asked.

Corey link

3/28/2020 03:16:20 pm

A lot of the info in this article is inflated. First of all, most businesses suffering from the outbreak are going to get a chunk of the stimulus package. PLUS, every person making less than $99k per year will get $1200 a month for the next three months or their full salary if there are laid off or unable to work. Burning Man could make use of these programs and probably will. If they do and they still dont roll over the tickets to next year, then yes, they are just a bunch of greedy business whores.

3/28/2020 09:29:11 pm

Where did you hear there will be "$1,200 per month for the next three months?" My understanding is that's a 1 time deal. Thx.

3/29/2020 08:59:56 pm

Really does amaze me that Burning Man people can speak so unkindly to other Burners. Is it the internet that makes that okay? Rolling over tickets to next year isn't the best option. Refunding is a more sensible option. But, we are not yet cancelled so these are moot points that are both part of scenarios we are considering should we need to cancel.

As i understand the stimulus package: We have to apply and not all banks are participating in loan packages. There is a limit to the size of a loan we'd be qualified for as Matt says above. I have personally hired each person at the office, or maybe 80% of the office. They are not employees, they are colleagues, friends, travel companions, collaborators and camp mates. I'm not at all inclined to consider a stimulus package an appropriate way to weigh the future of the organization, the event and the members of the Project who bring so much to making the event and culture come to life.

We are not confident that the president and our elected officials have created any sort of stimulus package that we can reliably count on to help shore our non-profit up. On the contrary. I was raised to work to take care of myself and those in my family and in this case those in the organization for which I'm charged.

I am not a greedy business whore and nor are any of the people I've been working beside to bring Burning Man and Black Rock City to our lives.

3/30/2020 03:12:08 pm

Marian, what options are on the Nevada state level? Being we pay an additional 9% fee placed on the event by the state, are there funds allocated from a rainy day fund due to that tax (I’m forgetting the name of the Nevada tax)? If the casinos, who pay the same tax, are getting a bailout, would BM possibly fall under this as well?

Keep the chin up and let’s all maintain a positive, thought provoking conversation please.

Chuck

3/30/2020 06:34:13 pm

Technically if the event didn’t happen and we don’t get refunded, then we basically just donated to the org. So our purchase should shift to a charitable donation (doesn’t help most folks) and the event tax should no longer apply and should be refunded by the state.

Nigel

3/30/2020 10:22:35 pm

Calling anyone at bman a "greedy business whore" is obviously not accurate, but bmorg does have a history of looking out for itself first. But lo it now has the opportunity to prove that it CAN treat well the folks who make the event what it is - the folks who receive DGS tickets.

First thing to do is cut expenses ASAP. ie: Let go of the office space in SF. Cut the payroll. Looking at these salaries:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nevada/articles/2020-01-17/burning-man-tax-documents-show-big-expenses-hefty-salaries
made me a little sick to my stomach. The average burner artist/experience creator doesn't make money like this! These salaries should be cut just like all our salaries have been cut. Show us with your deeds, not just your words, that you're doing YOUR best to economize and survive before asking the broader community for help.

Second: Treat the DGS folks decently. Don't stand behind a "no refunds for any reason" clause. (It was pretty icky how "pandemic" was recently and quietly added to the list of causes that would not result in a refund.) Ideally, you would refund all the tickets. If you can't do that, exchange every 2020 DGS ticket for a ticket for bman 2021. Maybe add a third 2021 ticket to every pair to show that you appreciate that we all lent you $1200 too keep your business afloat.

3/31/2020 02:15:19 pm

It’s called the entertainment tax 9%

3/31/2020 02:12:51 pm

Mmmm you got your numbers wrong on the stimulus check. It’s a one time whoop to do

Sam

3/28/2020 04:33:43 pm

I've seen the suggestion before but what about if instead of a refunds the 2020 DGS sales are basically credits / discounts for future events for those who would take that option. This would allow the org a lot more flexibility since they could also compensate when setting future ticket prices.

In other words, why don't we loan ourselves the money?

3/29/2020 09:01:10 pm

can you tell me more about how you would see that work? If you spent 1000$ now for 2 tickets, what does that go for in "future events" plural?

Matt

3/29/2020 11:38:22 pm

If the event cannot happen in 2020, I would be happy to see the money I've already spent on tickets rolled forward as three equal credits over the next three years, towards the guaranteed ability to purchase 2 tix + vehicle pass/year. Think of it as a pre-DGS. This would satisfy multiple concerns:
A. We'd be made financially whole over time.
B. This would allow the org to continue.
C. It will remove the stress of "will I get tickets" for 3 years.
Considering the majority of tickets sold are DGS, presumably to burners with a vested interest in returning and actively working to make BRC happen in some way each year, this plan would help ensure the majority of our artists, TCOs, creators and core participants can return.
I'm also open to similar ideals like: three equal credits that need to be used over 5 years. etc.

3/30/2020 03:45:01 pm

I agree with Matt’s solution here and almost everyone we burn with agree. Being able to use credit towards a guaranteed ticket over the following 3-5 years is not only investing the health and viability of the Burn, but an investment into ourselves and the community.

This may also help alleviate some of the Ticket sale issues the Org faces every year because it is one more avenue of ticket sales that relieves pressure on other sales such as the main sale. And knowing we had a future ticket, we’d also be more inclined to both financially get involved with art or mutant vehicles or actual build one.

Having an upfront $1000 per person allows the Org to cover its bills while also investing or collecting interest. Seems a win win.

Dina

3/31/2020 10:51:36 am

Marian, thanks for all that you do, I can't imagine the world without burning man. If I don't get a full refund, I'll survive. I like Matt's idea and was thinking of something similar: people have the option to get a refund, but if they choose to hold on to their tickets, they will roll over to next year, which guarantees that they get to pay this year's price, and that prices next year will increase by a good amount.

Daria

3/31/2020 02:33:19 pm

I really like this option (3 years in 5, not 3 years in a row, everyone may have a serious reason to skip a year.)
And I actually don't understand why rolling over the tickets isn't considered a good option. I got access to my tickets as a form of gratitude for my art. I paid full price for them. If you refund the tickets and don't provide access to the next year, you're generally walking back on that gratitude. I don't want my money back, I want to go home. I paid this money and never was expecting to get them back so I'm ok with no refund. I'm a part of this community and I'm ok with generally lending this money out till the next year so I want at least to have this option if you decide to do refunds.
As for a no refunds option... let's remember that it's DGS. People who bought these tickets pay for camps or art out of their pocket. I spent around $5K for our self-funded project last year. It's A LOT for me. I spent around $1,250 on top of this for tickets. If they're not rolled over, next year I have to face a reality that my budget for BM has just became more than I can afford and I should reconsider my priorities. Even if I can go, my self-funded art can't anymore. It's pretty much the same with all DGS participants whom I know. Camp leaders often have to buy a few DGS tickets themselves as lots of their campmates don't know yet during the DGS if they go this year, for some of them this decision may mean huge personal losses which will affect their decision to go next year. And if we decide to put the whole financial burden of this situation onto the people who already give the most (and spend the most unfortunately) - artists and camp core teams - it's not just unfair, it puts the next event at risk, same as the org going bankrupt.
I'm from the finance world and understand that covering this roll-over next year (generally, having the org working 2 years at the budget of 1 year) may be way too difficult. This option with spreading it over a few years looks pretty good from this point of view. And lots of DGS people would be glad to have some certainty for a few years as a form of gratitude for supporting this community with their money once again.

Cheeky

3/28/2020 04:34:13 pm

I am just trying to figure out how office space rent in both SF and Gerlach equals 2 million a year. Am I missing something? So could all these costs they are reporting on the above mentioned form be exaggerated, therefore maybe they do have enough money to refund all of us our DGS and car passes. I admittedly am not a math wiz, but even if they are paying 40k a month let’s say on rent and utilities in SF and let’s say a generous 5k a month for Gerlach, that does not add up to 2 million. Something in my gut tells me they have the money to refund us.

Anya

3/28/2020 05:06:43 pm

That's what I don't get. This must be a typo, unless the org is personally paying for the apartments of several employees and treating it as office space. That's an insane amount of money.

Maid Marian JackRabbit

3/29/2020 09:10:25 pm

SF office space is $100,000 month for 25,000 square feet for 128 employees. Which of course we aren't using right now which has me wanting to pack it all up and put it somewhere. Then there are utilities and insurance.

We also have 2 storage places we pay for 1 in SF and 1 in Reno.

Then there is the Reno office. We don't rent any space in Gerlach. We own the properties there that we use. Except we periodically rent space from Bruno's.

I don't know what other space might be included but some quick math gets us to $1.2m right way for the SF office before utilities or insurance or anything else is added.

Ted

4/5/2020 11:58:51 am

Lay off 50 employees for six months. Those that stay take a 50 percent paycut for six months. Vacate expensive real estate. Move to a cheaper location like Richmond. Problem solved.

4/5/2020 11:53:54 am

You can buy a mansion and ten acres land in gerlach for 5k a month. Vastly overpaying on all of it. And don’t need to be in San Fran. Can be in a cheap suburb. They have been overspending for years.

R W

3/28/2020 05:55:54 pm

I agree that BM needs to find a way to make this right. As a theme camp organizer I have paid for 8 tickets as is usual since some of my core set up crew can not afford to pay for tickets in February. The single camp members on my crew are required to purchase both their tickets and I pay them for the second ticket. I don't require my campers to pay me until the tickets have been delivered and I can ship them out to them. This gives crew members a good five months to put the funds together. I will be done if I have to eat the cost this year.

There are options for BMOrg. They have assets and could acquire loans. Possibly even a stimulus loan/grant. They could defer tickets to next year and raise prices for the general sale tickets to make up any potential shortages. They could certainly reduce expenses more than just the obvious (listed above) for this year. Everyone else is laying off and now would be the time for people to get enhanced unemployment benefits while reducing BM payroll expenses. I am positive there are far cheaper places to have their offices, I agree those numbers do not make sense. They could dig deeper and cut a lot more expenses. What would they have done if they had not been able to get DGS tickets sold just before the world was put on hold? There has to be a plan.

Every other event that has postponed or cancelled has refunded or deferred tickets. It can be done. It would be an act of bad faith to sell any additional tickets without a plan to refund, defer to next year or even reschedule the event for the end of September (as an example). I have people who bought DGS tickets a month ago who don't have jobs now and could use that money. I can't in good faith ask other campers to buy them (when they could be worthless), there is no transfer tool in place to allow them to be transferred and they have tied our hands. I understand they have all their eggs in one basket (dangerous business practice) but if they want to maintain loyalty now is the time to show that they deserve it. Don't kill the gooses that lay your golden eggs. The DGS ticket holders are BM bread and butter and BMOrg must not take advantage of us.

3/31/2020 02:42:53 pm

Oh, I was wondering why nobody is raising the question of the camp leads' situation and here it is. I do believe that a no refunds decision would cost us most of camps. Too many leads would lose more than they can afford.

3/31/2020 07:22:19 pm

1. There is no conceivable reason for the BMOrg to lease 25,000 square feet of office space in San Francisco, the most expensive place in the country. Burning Man is not held in San Francisco. It's not even held in the same State. There are MANY cheaper alternatives. This possibility should have been explored long before the current crisis. I'm feeling like maybe the org has not been the best steward of our money. They had so much they just didn't have to care. And everyone thinks working in San Francisco is groovy.

2. In general so much money has been sloshing back and forth, a lot of it behind the scenes, that the whole purpose of BM was getting lost. Whatever happened to the idea that there was no money exchanged? It might be a misfortune that BM got so much attention from the newly-rich in Silicon Valley. Some of those people have truly unlimited funds and are not shy about throwing some around to get what they want.

3. One symptom is the whole plug-and-play subculture, which threatened to take over the whole event. Money again.

4. The existence of the event, going forward, is in danger. It is not in danger from lack of funds. Remember how this whole thing started? It wasn't in $1.2 million of fancy office space. We did without money before, we can do it again. The danger is that the way this is handled might alienate the burners (who actually pay for all this), especially DGS ticket holders. The org is going to have to be very careful to emerge from this crisis with their integrity and the trust of burners collectively intact. If the higher-ups do not accept pay cuts and get rid of that space in SF, this is going to be difficult/impossible.

Emiluz Pucante

3/28/2020 09:52:14 pm

I have not seen anyone else point out the obvious: despite the joy and positive experience most of us get from the privilege of being citizens of Black Rock City....
BURNING MAN IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL BUSINESS!!!
So many of the other businesses around the world are already failing during our attempts to flatten the curve and survive the pandemic of Covid19 and some are finding ways to survive and reconfigure. If the org cannot find a way to continue operations as they are currently run, they must find a new way to exist or perish. Private service and entertainment businesses and self employed people of every walk of life are facing this dilemma. We need as a human race to survive the virus but we have been and will continue to be changed by the process.
I hope we all will find a way to be kind and supportive to each other on the way to a remodeled default world. If Burning Man does not survive but my children do survive I will be happy. If my children do not survive the pandemic I will not look to BRC to comfort me no matter how fantastic the Twmple design.

3/28/2020 11:25:28 pm

I have no doubt that the species H. sapiens will survive this virus; after all we've been evolving together for a long time. Hominids and viruses were made for each other, so to speak.

On the other hand, I wouldn't regard Burning Man or art in general as completely non-essential. There are some who even would argue that a life without "art" (creative expression in all forms) is no life at all, hardly a life worth living.

Mog

3/28/2020 10:46:38 pm

Gawd there must be a rich Burner who can float a year operating costs who actually DOESN'T demand a board seat or any damn thing in return. There are so many Burners for whom $20 million can be their annual charitable giving...

3/28/2020 11:12:29 pm

Exactly.

Kelli Hoversten

3/28/2020 11:32:07 pm

It was very quick and easy for them to raise the money for fly ranch. There is more money squirmed away. They treat the volunteers like shit I know because I am one. Volunteering at Burningman cost me my vision.
Let’s see how they like to loos their jobs businesses and future plans.

Vladimir Herrera link

3/29/2020 02:14:24 am

Too many people will pass. 2020 will always be remembered for what is about to happen. This is the time where the ten principles can make a difference in the lives of people worldwide. Burning Man was never just an event, it is a social experiment where humans value each other for everything, the way it should be. We need that to spread. For an event where money does not work anymore, the BMorg makes it about money. Walk the talk.

Lindsay Robinson

3/29/2020 05:29:40 am

I ran a non-profit that had to cancel its annual convention in 2001. It was scheduled to open on 9/12/2001. So I appreciate the analysis provided. Not refunding or roiling over DGS and FOMO tickets would kill Burning Man. Making these ticket holders eat the cost or floating a one year loan to keep the doors open is unconscionable. With some 70,000 plus who would like to see the Burn survive until 2021, we could run one Hell of a kick-starter campaign. Raising 10 plus million should be very doable. If the vast community of burners wouldn’t turn out to provide the support, it’s time for Burning Man to die.

Yoncifer

3/29/2020 06:13:23 am

Great post.

You haven't taken into account the US economic stimulus package - which Burning Man Org will be entitled to. They are eligible to receive up to $10 million loan backed by the US govt. and which will be forgiven if used for Payroll, Rent, Utilities and Healthcare.

This can assist for two months of operating expenses. Not a full solution but certainly will help.

Scrunt

3/29/2020 07:14:43 am

Using the multi verse idea.
Sell unlimited amount of tickets for a virtual bman instead of a physical version.
Theme camps offering a portal into their paradigm.
Could be as simple as footage of past event offerings or new experiences created for this year or videos of them creating playa art or their art car or fundraising partys.

Heather

3/29/2020 10:13:44 am

Either way they should make a decision before main sale this week. I do not think it is fair at this point to sell additional tickets without a plan and transparency

Keith

3/29/2020 10:20:54 am

Could they sell FOMO tickets for 2022 at sky-high prices this year? I would buy a couple. Everyone will be vaccinated by 2022, and people coming from other countries would have time to plan cheaper travel and logistics buying those a year in advance.

3/29/2020 10:36:00 am

They could create a Bman etsy's type platform to sell schwag items, necklaces, paint rocks, clay, metal, wood.
Proceeds go to bman.
We still get to dream of and manifest into reality our creations and share them and keep the org solvent and our creative selves won't have to die.

Crispy Dave

3/29/2020 12:26:31 pm

BULLSHIT 40% + of the money collected from ticket sales go to salary, why not layoff like everyone else is and ask the Gov for a loan like everyone else is and feel the pinch like everyone else is. ORG is not special and should not ask the ticket holders to treat them special.

Eltee

3/29/2020 01:29:49 pm

I find it very odd that almost all of the comments are related to money in one way or another.
Way more interesting should be the health issue.
The responsibility for 80.000 wonderful human beings getting together, where distancing won't work at all. No word on how to ensure that everybody entering is not affected by the virus. Radical self reliance cannot and must not mean that I possibly get exposed to a potentially deadly virus that the whole world cannot treat right now.

Marie

3/29/2020 01:42:45 pm

Disappointed to see that the decision on whether or not to cancel seems to be more about money and the “survival” of the organization rather than social responsibility and concern for spreading infection. Even if the disease tapers off by early summer, there’s nothing that guarantees a massive congregation of people from around the world won’t trigger a resurgence. Right now there are 8 genetically different forms of COVID out there, cross immunity is not guaranteed. A social experiment indeed. One thing is for sure if further outbreak can be linked to BM, it’s done. Period.

It is naive to think this whole thing can decimate the worlds economy and the org can simply carry on as usual. If we all love the event as much as we say we do then we should have faith it will rebuild even if it collapses. Perhaps this is the cultural course correction we’ve been asking for.

3/29/2020 05:09:31 pm

Come on BMORG

Cancel the event.

80,000 folks (or even 10k) in a tight location with drugs, alcohol, permissive natures and heat stroke, hell your even risking Sacramento, Reno and Gerlach with a reinfection. Close the event and refund or voucher for the next one. do the RIGHT thing, not the least expensive thing.

Thomas-Tempo

3/29/2020 05:24:44 pm

I really think that BMORG should only limit the festival in 2020 to USA domestic based burners. No international burners can attend period. If you can show proof that you live within the United States than you can attend. Sorry but most of the Burningman man attendees are from California and Washington states. Kind of like in the old days prior to 2005. Just a thought. Also, should provide documentation of COVID-19 virus neg. test upon entry along with medical insurance liability. Sounds kind of harsh but throwing it out there my fellow burners.

3/29/2020 05:27:37 pm

"Kind of like in the old days prior to 2005. " BS in '96 we had international exposure and have had a large component since. all this would do is make it more exclusive and still risky for those attending. we rreally don't even know if the virus il be in check by then (I doub't it)

oldfart

3/29/2020 05:46:40 pm

I don’t normally vent in public, this time however I think I will.

First let me say I am 70+ and have been the TCO, Mayor, call it what you like for a camp normally placed on or near Rods (Ring) Road for many years, I live on a fixed income, and I am not financially loaded by any stretch of imagination. What I do have are an abundance of life skills I acquired working for 50+ years in a myriad of industries, including tech, I do not live in the Bay area. What I have seen from the BM organization is nothing short of the same kind of BS we have seen coming from Washington DC for as long as I can remember, no matter who is in office. BM is a good old boy organization. The rules apply to us, not to them, the rules are not clear, and even now just how application of the rules will work is not clear.

Our camp of approximately 50 back in 2014 got 24 DGS invites, the past few years we got 13 DGS invites, this year 12. I have another friend and camp leader on RRR their camp is half our size and they got 10 invites this year, last year they had 20 people in camp. I know of another camp, most of them are personal friends that gets on average of 5 invites, last year they had 12 people in camp. Why are the DGS invites not fairly distributed? My camp has been placed for years, and offer a lot of public activities during the entire event. Hey Org, this is your responsibility to keep it fair and honest, how is this fair, you are not doing your job, it should not be political, just do your job and keep it equitable.

When you fill out your Theme Camp Questionnaire, they ask about your interactivity 5 months in advance, and you have to be pretty accurate, up to who, what, and what time. When you get your placement location, it says it is not certain until you actually get placed. Why do the Theme Camps have to live by Immediacy, and the Org doesn’t? You are expected to do all this and placement won’t even tell you what side of the street you are on. Hey ORG be transparent, it is the Theme Camps that make it happen for everyone at BM, give us the tools to do our job.

Over the past 5 years we have had people from England, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, India, China, Japan, Australia, and Israel camping with us, not to mention Eastern Canada, and we have many of our regular campers that are located on the east coast and in the southern states. Now all that said I do NOT support the obvious money grabbing by many PlugNPlay camps, I do however understand the need and reason for this some level of support for long distance campers. Yet when BM said they were going to have this years Theme Camp Symposium in Reno, locals complained that they would have to go to Reno, and they wanted to keep it in SF. How about us, we book air fair, rent rooms, pay for food in a city where everything is over priced to attend important events. So if you go to BM, how would you like to do what you regularly do at BM from another country? Finally it looks like BM is addressing the PNP camps, how though, be clear.

Recently placement put out a request to fill out a volunteer questionnaire for help both pre, and during the burn. I am sure they got way more volunteers than they have spots for. Hey BM Org, there are people in this group that have a wealth of experience, are willing to help, you just need to be open with what you need, and you need forget Immediacy for your free help, give us time to learn, review and make plans. Don’t expect quality help when you finally notify your volunteers 2 days before it starts, we have lives too. When you send out the Camp Survey Squad, don’t bother asking my camp if we are doing what we said we would do, ask the first time, 1 and 2 year old camps, and cut them off at the knees if they are not. Have your placers check on the older camps, use the volunteers and CSS to keep the new camps honest. Then pass the DGS tickets back to those who do what they say. Oh, and you could pay for all the work and planning it will take to implement this by cutting out the catered lunches at the SF office, bring a brown bag to work.

Finally some people complain about the prices of the tickets to the event, for a 2 weeks if you have a Work Access Pass or 1 week if you just attend, in my opinion $500.00 is free. In most cities a good ticket to a show is $300+ and it is 2 hours not 2 weeks, how much would great concert tickets or Broadway show be in NYC or the city you live in? I do not want to lose $1550 for this years invite, however it will not affect my life, only part of my vacation. I started planning on my 2020 burn early in 2019, and started spending for the 2020 burn as soon as the 2019 burn was over.

So in summary, I am sick and tired of wondering what the burning man gods will do to me next, I will donate my tickets to them this year, if they don’t start acting responsibly, open, and fair, I will deprive them of much more than my $1500, I will depri

3/29/2020 05:51:08 pm

So in summary, I am sick and tired of wondering what the burning man gods will do to me next, I will donate my tickets to them this year, if they don’t start acting responsibly, open, and fair, I will deprive them of much more than my $1500, I will deprive them of my experience, by not being a leader and not teaching the 10 principals, and not keeping my camp on track, and not being a good will ambassador for them. In the military the enlisted keep it going, at BM the Theme Camps make it happen for the entire event. Piss off enough of the Theme Camps and let the new camps scam your tickets and you will become just another festival, with sponsors and advertising, oh, and you can put the trash collection sites at the port-a-potty locations.

Thomas-Beckfield

3/29/2020 05:52:36 pm

I think, according to BM Census 80% of attendees are from the West Coast. But who knows. Working Will Call Box Office for the last 15 years I’ve seen more and more international burners. Hopefully even a virus vaccine by then. Just food for thought!

3/29/2020 05:56:58 pm

Does BLM drive the ultimate decision to cancel the event since BM takes place on their land? Since they reap a financial benefit, isn't it in their best interest to keep stringing everyone along, to keep selling tickets until Covid becomes so bad, they are forced to cancel but not before BLM and their associates get their non refundable down payments and upfront fees for services? As long as BLM says its a go, BM will continue to sell tickets, right? If BM chooses to cancel, I'd think BLM would also impose a fee if not already included in a contract for cancelling.

Sanfransailor

3/29/2020 06:01:39 pm

Keep. Me posted. Love the Burn

Merman

3/29/2020 07:17:05 pm

I was dismayed to see the March 20 post on the Burning Man web site, in discussing the refund issue, say: “Our terms and conditions state that tickets are non-refundable ‘for any reason.’” This is a decidedly default world response to a question that implicates values more than law. Reading the comments here and Marian's responses, I'm again disappointed by the reliance on the "no refunds" legal disclaimer. This legal hook from the default world is not the right guide to a good result. I suggest that deeper values, like love, trust, and honor, should guide the decisions that must be made.

Teal

3/29/2020 08:11:27 pm

They could eliminate ticket handling fees by making them all digital. You buy a ticket and get a pdf. Your serial number is recorded. If you sell it it is updated on the website with the new person;s identity. There are so many ways to avoid the fees with tickets, yet bmorg refuses to look at them. A facsimile of your ticket is included with your sticker in the package you receive at greeters. We live in an electronic age, act like it.

3/29/2020 08:17:12 pm

It seems to me that Burning Man, doesn’t have a way for long time burners, those of us that have been in camps building, keeping the 10 principals alive, have a way to get a ticket, unless we are still key members of a theme camp. We can’t retire or even slow down.

Technology; Burning Man is becoming more and more technology dependent. Which means in order to secure a ticket, even become part of many theme camps, the camper needs to be technology savvy. Many seniors struggle with anything more complicated than using a flip phone.

Zach Z

4/9/2020 12:31:18 pm

Unfortunately I think ticket sales are much more complicated than this. Some performing artists have fought ticket fees for processing/shipping/electronic for years and have been unsuccessful. For example, Pearl Jam. Granted, technology has come a long way since Pearl Jam was fighting that, but I believe a lot of the same barriers still exist.

Lars

3/29/2020 08:48:49 pm

I would be happy to buy a ticket this year if this guaranteed my purchase for next year. The playa has always provided for my group, the least I could do is give back!

Rex link

3/30/2020 11:10:08 am

If you offered me a guaranteed slot in the general ticket sale for 2021 and 2022 I would agree to buy tickets for 2020 at the regular price even though I understand there is a good chance the event will cancel. I'm effectively paying $500 to guarantee me tickets the next 2 years. You get the revenue needed for this year. I get to rescue the event AND make sure I have no ticket hassle for the next 2 years. Boom. Problem solved. Drops mic and walks away

Mamapus

3/30/2020 11:35:56 am

As a camp lead I had to cover the cost of many of our DGS tickets personally, with the assurance that I would be reimbursed closer to the event by both our crew, and through camp dues for select tickets (person transporting our trailer gets gifted a ticket covered by camp dues, etc). I am currently out of pocket over $4,000. One of my co-leads is in the same situation. We are not wealthy people that can afford this huge hit - we are only able to cover these expenses when trying to bridge a few months of time. I understand the difficult position the org is in, but not at least partially refunding or carrying forward the tickets to a future year can be completely devastating to leads like us.

RotS

3/30/2020 12:25:31 pm

I do think the org should offer the option for a refund for all tickets already purchased as a sign of good will. We're in the midst of a global pandemic and a lot of people will be needing that money for survival.

If the org is forthcoming with their financial situation and what it needs to weather this storm, I would be more than happy to subscribe to a monthly Patreon type subscription where I can give $5, $10, $20 a month towards keeping the org afloat. That way people can give what they can without sacrificing their financial stability.

Maybe some of our wealthy burners will step up to the plate and help, maybe they won't.

One of the things I love about Burners is their ability to think outside the box and find creative solutions to complex problems. For now I'm just trying to remain hopefully optimistic that we can figure this out as well.

mark

3/30/2020 02:58:46 pm

I think that at this point, the reason there are so many aggressive comments and opinions, is that the DGS sale primarily affected people who work their ass off for this event. The survival of BM and the year round operation, is absolutely something that long time cultural contributors are vested in. But with the notion that the option is A. Full Refund, or B. No Refund - that's a bit simplified, and as always, we hear the people who shout the loudest, or take the time to rant. (Ranting, and discussions shouldn't be discredited, but its a small cross section of our entire global community.)

I very much appreciate this article, and thank you Dr. Yes, for vital information that many people would not seek out, unless presented to them in this type of format. I think we need to continue this conversation, and understand that it's a troubling one; for the Org, for DGS ticket holders, and for the other tens of thousands of people who do this crazy, lovely thing every year.

I'll say, as my personal comments; that as a community, we should carefully consider separating DGS tickets from long term fundraising opportunities. It is important, that we not burden artists, leaders, and integral theme camp members with their cost of tickets, to be automatically appropriated for running the year-round operation costs. The year round operation costs for BMorg should be shared by our entire community.

I'm willing to donate money to keep Burning Man operational; but I think it should be separate from ticket sales. It's hurtful and dangerous to refuse considerate measures to the people who provide a spark for the culture. (Those measures may be whole, or partial; as long as it's not nothing.) It's also disingenuous to present that the BMorg requires year round functionality, without mention that theme camp organizing and art planning requires year round functionality, too.

Further, think of the people who are willing to contribute. There are tens of thousands of yearly participants who would also donate to keep Burning Man and it's outreach programs alive. There are tens of thousands of former participants, who no longer attend, who would donate to help this culture thrive, even if they have moved on. There are (probably) tens of thousands of future participants, who say, 'I'll get there, but not yet' who would donate to keep their chances to be at BRC for the first time alive.

Again, to reiterate:
Year round functionality for the long term survival of Burning Man is something our entire global community should give to, NOT just DGS ticket sale participants.

Stefan Schermerhorn

3/30/2020 03:31:01 pm

It would be a good opportunity to reduce the size of Burning Man (finally), at least temporarily. Make it 20,000 people max this year. Get all the fundamentals back in place, de-commodify, and adhere strongly to the principles. A wonderful chance to reset and show the world how it should be. Since there is no refund and no Force Majeure clause, just put Burning Man on this year, with a much smaller staff and smaller crowd. Ask for donations from the world wide community to help BM restructure to emerge from this whole and viable. My two cents.

Randy

3/30/2020 05:01:19 pm

As I read all the remarks i honestly cannot believe that BM has not already cancelled the event. I have been going since 1999 and with COVID 19 it seems implausible that the BML would issue a permit for BM this year. BM has no running water, has only portable toilets for most people, people are gathering , touching, hugging, etc. It is the perfect spot for an outbreak and then they leave and travel throughout the world possibly spreading the virus.

The government will not let this take place. Ii is a PR nightmare for them. It is questionable if they will let people attend sporting events which have running water, soap and bathrooms with plumbing, so why risk an event with a serious lack of hygiene options.

Time to face reality that Burning Man will not happen this year and just get on with figuring out what to do for the people who already purchased tickets.

Nigel Sloppy

3/30/2020 05:24:28 pm

How about cutting costs starting at the top:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nevada/articles/2020-01-17/burning-man-tax-documents-show-big-expenses-hefty-salaries

If the event is canceled, what do all these people have to do anyway? And just think, in a year bman could maybe find an IT director who won't mess up the general ticket sale!

potes

3/30/2020 11:06:11 pm

It seems like there's a solution from the world of professional sportsball (shudder): personal seat licenses. PSLs (not to be confused with pumpkin spice lattes) give the buyer the first right to purchase tickets for that seat when an event is held in the stadium.

The Burning Man event could do the same thing. I'm confident you could get 5,000 people to buy 5,000$ ticket licenses, for say, a 5 year right to buy tickets (and get them). With some common sense protection against scalpers and a way for individuals to buy PSLs for a camp entity, it's an easy-peasy $25 million.

It doesnt change the culture appreciably, especially if people are encouraged to work through the theme camp structure. Plenty of rich people now overpay to guarantee themselves a ticket (see sale, FOMO).

Lisa

3/31/2020 12:06:58 pm

It is ludicrous to have their most dedicated participants fund this disaster in whole while many have lost their jobs and are starving. Sell ALL the tickets and then cancel and give partial refunds back to everyone. Why should the people that were going to BUILD THE CITY be penalized, and at HUGE proportions, while all of the rest of the would-be participants get off scott free. It's ridiculous and will create so much bad faith that I doubt the burn would survive. This will be my 21st burn in a row and if i'm now going to be out of pocket THOUSANDS of dollars, I will never, ever be back because the entire ethos that is/was Burning Man will be ruined.

Civic responsibility extends to the whole of the community, not just those that are now left holding the bag at their own great expense because they jumped through all of the hoops that the Borg required. Ridiculous.

Jake_Klepto

4/4/2020 04:05:55 pm

that is indeed spot on.

Robin

4/2/2020 09:57:36 am

Thanks for all you do Marian.

But please cancel the event. Better it go away than people spread the virus.

Cancel the event and offer refunds to those that want it, but also the option to roll over tickets to be used in the next three years. And then raise the price of the event by $150 for everyone (including those who bought tickets for this year) for the next five years (or however long it takes to make the money back.) It's an added hardship but a doable one for most people if they know it's coming in advance and it's helping save the event.

Vidiot

4/2/2020 04:51:01 pm

If the event is cancelled,what if the BMorg opened up Fly Ranch for a smaller-scale event, when feasible, to DGS ticket holders? Perhaps they could sell additional tickets to group members who didn't get DGS.

wizard

4/3/2020 10:22:45 pm

I'm confused about the calculation for "Payroll, Benefits, Taxes" -- your methodology states it was 125 workers * 70K + 16% = 16M

125 * 70K = 8.75M

So what am I missing, that the total shown is almost double the calculation? I'll see if it's been answered already.

Cheers

4/4/2020 12:21:08 pm

Writing this therapy for me, lots of emotion in this string, I am going to keep this factual and then will slide into a more emotional perspective.

Before i dive in....I do applaud Marian for communicating, I think that is cool.

Some facts:
1>We did see this coming, we have all seen it since January
2>Cancel and refund OR roll-overs have been issued by other festivals.
3>There has been flip-flopping on the ticket T&Cs which well documented, adding the corona/pandemic clause without communicating this properly didn't do BMorg any good,
4>A cancellation of the main-sale will have further ramifications on the DSG and FOMO sale from a legal perspective

Other facts:
1>Tickets are non-refundable per the T&Cs
2>Other events do not have the year around overhead needed to run burning-man
3>Participate, the burn is amazing because of the contributions made by theme-camps and individual participants.
4>People are being laid off, service workers, artist, gig workers are impacted hardest. Our community is impacted severely by the above as most of our beautiful souls work in heavily impacted industries.
5>Empathy, I think the first comment is one asking for empathy. BMorg has not shown a lot of empathy but I also believe they are not in a position to do so as it might have legal ramifications if they do show empathy (i know, sounds pathetic does even typing this up)
6>Some recognition we all invested in the event and community knowing things where at risk, that is showing a ton of love, gratitude and trust.

Personally?
1>In the FOMO hole for $3.5K
2>I always go the FOMO route since I stopped doing a theme-camp in 07 after doing that for 8 years (and yes, that runs anywhere from $15-$20K at least) also believe in contributing what you can. Can i afford to throw away $3.5K? Absolutely not.
3>Sad to see this is turning into such a cluster. Lots of emotions and when we get through this, think us as participants and BMorg both have to come together, this is about more than just refunds. Dissatisfaction has been brewing on a whole host of topics and they often relate to BMorg not listen and acting on the advise given by the long-term and invested members.

Solutions?

As you say Marian, we can solve this as a community so BMorg should have faith in the community..

Here are some potential solutions that might work and have been suggested in various blogs in case the burn will get cancelled:

1>Make a refund optional. I think you might be surprised
2>Offer partial refunds (50%) and roll the the remainder as a credit to next year's ticket sale (will also make it easier to get financing)
3>Refund, be more transparent about the financial impact and together with the 200 BMorg staff embark on aggressive fund-raising, online events, online sales of donated art.....you might be surprised in the community.
4>50% refund and offer preferred access to tickets (we are talking DSG and FOMO buyers anyways) for X number of years, that group goes every year anyway and it takes the stress out of it. You can still keep the tiered pricing.
5>No refund, perhaps it's possible to do the event up (maybe veteran's day?)
6>No refund but roll-over tickets for 2021 with a pledge to donate.

I personally would to offer 1, 2 & 3 as options to the community. If members need t funds, they should have access to it! In my case, I probably go for option #2 (50% refund and 50% all-in for next year's ticket). Some richer folks might even go for option #3 and they might be able to chip in to ensure we get amazing art.

Plenty that can be done.

One more.....I'd actually think BMorg should just have the main-sale from a revenue perspective and offer up item #1, 2 or #3 in case the event is cancelled.

Be well, be healthy, be stress-free and be happy you all, peace and love to all you beautiful souls!

Jake the snake

PS: If everybody wants a full refund.....you have your answer there as well in a way :-( I think that with a main sale and cost cutting on the BMorg side we all should be a-ok for 2021 in case the event gets cancelled and, if we can still have it in 2020......even better.

Now let's get to work and solve this cluster.

4/5/2020 10:12:34 am

Hopefully you are already considering doing the below:
1-Considering the true fairness of forcing only early ticket purchasers to fund BM.
2-consider laying off the BM staff and have them file for unemployment like the rest of the country
3- file for grant loans for PPP through the SBA like the rest of the country is doing.

Dr. Dust

4/6/2020 01:26:23 pm

My suggestion, emailed to Marian, if you [optionally] donated your DGS ticket, you get a guaranteed option-to-buy next year (& perhaps that option doesn't expire for a few years, until you use it)?

She said she was told "no" to that by several Burners, that it became too much "privilege", and was "anti" too many Burner values.

I dunno. We've got the privileged FOMO sale, and Burners haven't screamed that it must be eradicated.

4/6/2020 01:30:24 pm

Doctor *nods politely*.

4/7/2020 06:45:29 am

LOL, I can see both sides of the coin, but I'm not sure which side you're landing on :P

I hope you've made your own suggestions to Marian, whatever they are

4/7/2020 09:35:51 am

Haha. I was just making an (admittedly somewhat obscure) reference to this scene from the old movie Spies Like Us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoe24aSvLtw

Heidi

4/6/2020 01:37:55 pm

Let's just not cancel Burning Man 2020!
Things will be better by August. And we can still practice safe distancing while there!

4/10/2020 09:10:48 am

I really do not see who that is gonna work. The risk on the assumption it MIGHT get better in stark contrast to what the CDC or WHO recommended? You are basically betting Lives in that gamble.

Art Burns

4/8/2020 10:07:43 am

Wow, a lot of strong views and opinions here. Accusations about cultural hypocrisy seem to be only going one way, (from the entitled ticket purchasers) and directed at the people who work year round to keep Burning Man alive and interesting. To me there is a certain irony in that... the pot calling the kettle black.
All that angst is just so much dust, and is not helpful. The main question is how much of the ticket money can/should be refunded, and how would that happen. This is an evolving situation, and discussion here (and other places) is informing the decisions that need to be made. Hopefully we can all have some patience, and some trust that the correct decisions will be made about whether to cancel the event, and what to do about the tickets that have been sold already. We all love(d) this event, and most of us want to see the event and the community continue into the future. Maybe the more extreme ends of the spectrum should lean in to find the center.

Magnificent Cunt link

4/12/2020 10:07:41 am

Your numbers are a bit of a reach.
And how you are still using a payables amount of 11m without adjustment for expenses no longer incurred is funny.
If you are removing half the income, remove half the expected A/P at year end at the very least because those costs are also no longer being incurred. Also as a balance sheet account, the A/P and the expenses you are citing will often already be accounted for in one or the other so using both for the same sum at the end is inflating your numbers.
Much of what is in your A/P is already accrued in your expense accounts.
Not sure why you would even keep 80% of the conference and travel budget.
Not sure why you would keep 65% of contractors.
Permits and Fees will most likely not be paid either so that 90% is also arbitrary.
You've also left in 90% of heavy equipment rental which without the event should be maybe 10% for any ranch activities if that.
You've also left 50% of insurance as if business insurance on a location in SF and Reno and the ranch is going to be close to half a mil when the need for liability of the event is gone?
Your figure in D28 (total for org costs without the event) are highly inflated and don't make much sense.
I haven't even touched payroll yet...
Also, not sure your read the 990 right thinking that artumnal brought in money -because it was a net loss of over 93k
Also the 990 has salary information for all directors and key employees so you didn't have to guess an average, when in reality the rest of the office staff don't make near 70k let alone incur that much cost to the company after UI,pension, etc.

Good effort though.

4/12/2020 12:51:23 pm

OK, so now there's no bman 2020! Can't say I'm surprised. On blanace I'm not sad either. I'll miss the event, but I've been thinking that BMORG has needed a hard reset for years. It has become lazy about being frugal because… it doesn’t have to be! No matter what it spends money on, all it’s had to do is raise ticket prices a bit. People might complain, but they will eagerly queue up to buy all the tickets in 13 seconds anyway.

BMORG has become full of itself. How else could it justify spending $1.2million/year on its SF office space. How else could it justify spending up to $266K/year on salaries. Why, for example, does it need a $189K/year Development Director when it can raise money effortlessly with ticket sales? Why does it need over 100 year-round employees?

BMORG has become arrogant. It's lost track of the fact that it’s the participants that make the event amazing, NOT Center Camp, NOT the infrastructure, NOT even the Man. If BMORG built these things and everyone just showed up as spectators, like they do at EDC, would bman be an event worth attending?

That arrogance had an astounding demonstration about a quarter way down from the top of this discussion. "Tony" rather bluntly suggested that if the event is cancelled, tickets should be refunded. Marian replied, "Hardly agree with you, Tony. If we are all going to behave like a community then that is what we are. The ticket refund policy is "no refunds". So, technically having a ticket in your hands and no event is actually your problem. Not mine. "me" being Marian."

So… We are all “a community”, but the fact that I’m not going to deliver what the ticket promises is “your problem”!?!?!?! In other words, when BMORG needs a hand, we are a community. When a participant needs a hand, it is his problem. Right.

So now those of us who bought tickets are being asked to donate their value to BMORG. Not just that, we're being asked to make charitable contributions as well. This makes me laugh a bit, just because the optics are so out of touch. But tell you what: I will CONSIDER doing these things, but FIRST I want to see a new balance sheet from BMORG. I want to see the office expenses cut to near zero. I want to see the payroll cut by something like 90%. I want to see individual salaries cut by 50%. I want to see the lovely beast that we've funded for decades slim down substantially before I will reach into my nearly empty pocket to feed it more. And I doubt I'm alone.

4/15/2020 09:06:26 am

>I want to see the office expenses cut to near zero.

So in other words, you want for them to have 0 office computers/printers, and 0 office space. Sounds like you want BMOrg to go away forever

>I want to see the payroll cut by something like 90%.

In other words, you want the BMOrg to disappear

4/16/2020 12:51:24 pm

" I want to see the office expenses cut to near zero. I want to see the payroll cut by something like 90%. I want to see individual salaries cut by 50%"

This is the right spirit, but too extreme. If the event is to continue, we need some office space (NOT the current number of square feet and NOT NOT NOT in San Francisco). (!!) The only reason to be in SF, an entire State away from the event is that the people involved love to work in SF, whereas working in Richmond or, better, Reno, would be an emotional downer. Tough, we're paying way too much for this goodie for the staff. The newly reduced need for space can be much more cheaply obtained elsewhere than in the most overheated rental market in the nation.

Ditto salaries. We should see some downward draft, in times when so many of us are unemployed or about to be. The exorbitant expenses and sloppy accounting (the remarks of Nigel and Magnificent Cunt are much to the point on this topic) have to stop. These were never justified, but the org got away with it. No more, in these new times.

Finally, Nigel puts it in a nut: " I want to see the lovely beast that we've funded for decades slim down substantially."

FlyGuy (aka John Koenig

4/16/2020 12:26:58 pm

1: this is a LONG thread and, I have not read every post.
2: That said, of the many posts I have read, NONE address the possibility of BM being cancelled again in 2021. Yesterday (4/15/2020) on the Today Show, a doctor stated that, in his opinion, "the old normalcy" would NOT return until 2022 at the earliest. BM is a "contact event" and, unless a REALLY good vaccine is created and then has widespread deployment, we're likely to see Covid19-2, Covid19-3 etc, etc. I personally am doing a great job of "self isolating" but, when I do need to surface to resupply, I am shocked at how many people are taking NO steps to protect themselves and others. They seem to go about as if there's nothing to worry about. People acting in the careless / reckless manner are very likely to keep the pandemic rolling. Also generally not discussed is the very real possibility of the pandemic NOT being "accidentally" released. If, in fact, said release was NOT an accident, that would change things significantly. China already has a "second wave". What will stop reinfection? To get back to the original point. BMOrg may need to consider a MUCH bigger problem from what they're facing today. I've started practicing yoga. Should the time come where it's necessary to put my head between my legs and kiss my a$$ goodbye, at least I'll be limber enough to do it. Wish good health to all Burners. STAY HEALTHY!

Zekeman

4/16/2020 10:39:22 pm

I read through this article and my take is - horse dribble. Granted, I've been working 13 hour days for the past month keeping my business alive, so I'm a bit tired and cranky, but for love of all that is holy ....

The numbers given on amounts they can "save" were guesses generated by someone who has no idea how businesses work - especially a business the size of the BORG. Granted, there are some sunk costs associated with the event that are needed to keep the event viable until next year (taxes, leases, rents, some salaries ...etc), some of those expense can probably be negotiated down. A majority of the remaining expenses can, and should, be negotiated down to near 0. No reason to pay for an item or a service they're not going to use. That's why there are force majeure clauses in contracts. The majority of the things they use are not special - they're all commodities and I'm sure another vendor would love to get their business if the current vendor doesn't want to play ball. The BORG has some weight, time to use it.

With regards to the fixed costs, the fact that the BORG has an office space in SF that runs $100,000 / month is a flat out disgrace. I've seen hedge funds in NYC with AUM over $1B that have cheaper office space. It's expense like this (and I'm sure others) that are a large reason why ticket sales have skyrocketed in recent years. ($1200 / ticket, seriously?) Part of the reason why I stopped going after '07 was the amount of flat out waste and negligence I saw on the playa from the BORG while they cried about money, yet refused to look at the way things were being run. Even though I hadn't paid for tickets in years and gave up a free ticket, I had no interest in continuing to contribute to, or support the waste. The BORG isn't a tech startup with multiple VC's backing them with the potential of a 10x multiple return in 5 years. They're a non-profit who's sole mission is to put on the event in the dessert for 1 week a year and the rest of the year to guard, protect (and where possible) extend the brand. That's it. It's not rocket science.

This pandemic is going to cause a lot of changes across the board. Many businesses will not stand up after it's done because of the wire's edge they've been living on. Others will have to radically adjust how they operate in order to survive and grow - the BORG is no different. The event in the desert happened for years with no money, no well paid team, no $100,000 / month office space (and some said it was better then), it can do it again if the will is there. The BORG isn't a Trust Fund baby that can just go back to Daddy and ask for more money when they've screwed up - time to clean up their act, clean up their books and get back to one of the major tenants of the event - radical self-reliance.

My $0.03

slut link

4/17/2020 11:00:24 pm

So much this. Delaying refunds for a few weeks so you can build infrastructure that encourages people to donate to you first in a pandemic where millions of people have lost there jobs is a level of out of touch only BMOrg could manage.

They easily could roll tickets over, but don't want to because they'll lose out on their solution -- as always, just jacking the price of the tickets up because they can still sell out.

BMOrg still seems to be completely oblivious that the people that actually make the city, that pay for the privilege to do so are also equality if not in many cases more negatively affected in this situation than they are. By this point as a percentage of their budget, I'd be shocked if your average theme camp hasn't spent a larger percentage of its capital budget than BMOrg has.

I'm glad they've let us know that they're committed to getting refunds to whoever they think "needs" them, it's too bad that was only after deciding that they need them more.

A donation should be something you do on your own, not an opt in guilt trip to get your money back. I, like most people am happy to donate, and given the state of the world, there are many worthy places that could use donations, BMOrg is not one of them. Hard to donate to something you don't even know what the money is going to be used for or why it's needed, especially so when you can easily donate to a food bank that will immediately benefit your local community.

4/17/2020 11:27:45 pm

Having seen the plan for the refunds, I'm pretty horrified. Anyone who bought two DGS tickets will be out $89, and this money won't go to help the org, it will go to the ticket vendor (who didn't mail any tickets) and the credit card companies. Wouldn't it be far better to either:
1) Give every 2020 ticket buyer the option of rolling them over to 2021?
2) Fully refund every ticket sale, depriving VISA of its fees? And THEN ask for donations?
Either way, bmorg would have more money and DGS ticket buyers wouldn't feel manipulated by a convoluted, wasteful, opt-in refund process.

Sadly, I fear the reason bmorg is not doing this is that they don't trust the good will of the DGS people towards themselves. Perhaps they fear that they've pissed off too much of them in the past. Wonder why?

4/18/2020 12:07:01 am

>Give every 2020 ticket buyer the option of rolling them over to 2021?

Yes, but then BMOrg loses out on the money they're planning on raising the ticket prices to in 2021 to address any shortfalls, because this is what they always do.

>2) Fully refund every ticket sale, depriving VISA of its fees? And THEN ask for donations?

Yes but given the severity of this situation they don't trust people to put BMOrgs needs above their own. Which is a super nice touch to the people who do just as much to make the event happen, and pay for the privilege to do so.

If this opt-in bullshit is the reason they can't just completely reverse the charges, fuck this sand rave, there are people losing food and shelter, donate to an actual charity.

>Sadly, I fear the reason bmorg is not doing this is that they don't trust the good will of the DGS people towards themselves. Perhaps they fear that they've pissed off too much of them in the past. Wonder why?

Your fear is 100% correct read the wording here: "You will be able to select how much of the refundable portion of your order you need refunded to you" and then after this limited opt-in window that they're hoping you miss "You will have two weeks to request a refund or donate a portion of the value of your ticket. We won’t know how soon we can process refunds until the form has closed, but our hope is to have all requests processed by early June at the latest." they likely will see how many people donated, look at the shortfall and then determine if they "need" to keep your refund more than they do. That's the only way this drags out until June, which by the way is likely outside the chargeback window.

This is being managed as badly as only BMOrg could do. Fuck these clowns, I'm filing a chargeback and donating to an actual charity that I know what they need the money for, I see where it goes and one that actually directly benefits needy people, not an org that just now figured out they might not need a 100k/m office.

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The Blog That Burns

Why Doesn't The Org Just Cancel Burning Man 2020 and Roll DGS Tix to 2021?

What Is the Problem With Just Rolling Tickets Over To 2021 or Refunding?

The Burning Man Org's Finances

Revenue

Costs

Cash on Hand

The Org's Cash Shortfall If It Cancels 2020 is likely to be in the range of $10 million.

Conclusion and Possible Solutions

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