The Burn.Life Blog

The Real Reasons Dancetronauts Were 'Banned'

6/16/2015

There's been a lot of controversy in the last few days over the DMV denying the Dancetronauts (a semi-famous art car out there with a famously loud music system) a permit for 2015. Notably, Burners.me wrote a very long article laying into the BMORG for the decision, laying out quite a few accusations and implying even more.

The Dancetronaut's mutant vehicle.

After just a little digging though, it seems to me like this is a tempest in a teapot. The Dancetronauts were indeed denied a permit for their mutant vehicle for 2015, but consider the following:

They received more complaints than any other art car in the history of Burning Man, both for drowning out everything else at the Man burn and because they had a DJ on their art car literally promoting an upcoming album drop (gross!).
This follows them receiving many complaints the previous year, and being put on probationary status for 2014 as a result.
They were offering up early entry passes in their Indiegogo fundraiser. Early entry passes are not meant to be sold, transferred, or given as gifts.

The full letter from the DMV to Dancetronauts laying out the reasons for denying them a DMV permit is, from my perspective, totally uncontroversial and unobjectionable. And while the Dancetronaut management seems, based on comments elsewhere, to be genuinely remorseful, the fact that they were on probation for 2014 and still pulled these things says that either they're not that serious about their remorse or they can't control what DJs on their art car are doing. (And there's just no excuse for offering early entry passes as campaign rewards.)

The Dancetronauts in '09. They take their theme seriously!

I've personally enjoyed Dancetronauts before and have nothing against them, at all. I do, however, think that in an event of 70,000 people, rules are necessary, and when they're broken egregiously (no reason to be a stickler about small things), something has to be done, whether that's volume that's too loud, someone promoting a fucking album drop, or abusing the early entry pass system. Nobody's telling Dancetronauts they can't come to Burning Man either - they're just not going to get a mutant vehicle permit for this year. That's it. It's a wrist slap. The equivalent of a timeout, and only for their vehicle, since all the individual members are free to attend.

Here's the letter, omitted from the Burners.me article, from the DMV to Dancetronauts laying out the reasons for the denial of their permit. Read it and see what you think. Does the DMV come off to you like they're being completely unfair, especially considering the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle was on probation? I don't think so.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:58 AM, DMV Hotties wrote:

Hello Philip & Trav –

I apologize for the delay in getting back with you as I’ve just recently taken responsibility for DMV following the departure of Wally Bomgaars.

Our continuing concern is that your responses don’t address the core issues raised by DMV and by participants.

The key responses you sent us are:

“People have a choice to move away from a loud vehicle…”

In terms of the Man Burn, this is not a reasonable answer. Participants who have selected a spot to watch the burn cannot be expected to change locations in the middle of a packed crowd when a loud mutant vehicle parks behind them. Nor is it reasonable to expect them to do so.

“Dancetronauts bring famous DJs to the Playa…”

This has no bearing on the issues of music volume or civic responsibility.

“We have a safety team…”

Again, this has no bearing on the issues of music volume of civic responsibility.

“Other vehicles are loud…”

That other vehicles may have issues does not excuse yours from having to follow the rules that all mutant vehicles are required to abide by. The DMV is having discussions with all other vehicles that we received complaints about.

It’s important for you to understand that the complaints about your sound levels on Burn night are serious and include complaints from two Burning Man founders, several members of the DMV Council, other Burning Man staff and the DMV Manager (Wally Bomgaars) personally. It did drown out music from other nearby mutant vehicles.

“Lots of people like us…”

Again, this has no bearing on the issues of music volume of civic responsibility.

“We followed all the rules…”

No, you didn’t, Your vehicle clearly violated the Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy. The concerns we need you to address relate to the Mutant Vehicle Sound Policy and to civic responsibility. As noted in the MV policy:

“Keep in mind that if we continue to have the level of complaints and issues that we have been having for the past few years, we may have to take greater steps to limit large sound on vehicles. Please consider your impact on the community and help us all keep sound on MVs a positive experience.”

To recap:

The Dancetronaut's mutant vehicle was issued a conditional license for 2014 based on sound policy violations from 2013.

Following the 2014 event, as previously mentioned, we received more sound complaints about the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle than any other vehicle in the history of the event. Despite multiple requests, you have not provided a satisfactory response to these complaints nor provided a plan to address them for 2015.

Additionally, in 2014, we were notified Dancetronauts were offering among other things, Early Entry passes and access to their mutant vehicles as a perks as part of your Indiegogo fundraiser. Early Entry passes were created specifically to allow artists, theme camp organizers and mutant vehicles owners early access to the event site to prepare for the event. It was a violation of the Early Entry pass policy to offer them as a perk.

This combination of infractions and your inability to provide a satisfactory response and resolution leave us no option but to deny a license to the Dancetronauts mutant vehicle for 2015. You are welcome to apply next year for 2016.

Sincerely,

Terry Schoop and the DMV Council

So what do you think? BMORG overreaction or legitimate punishment? Let us know below or on Facebook.

60 Comments

Brigit

6/16/2015 11:55:07 am

Legit. Interesting that this particular email was left out.

Helix

6/16/2015 12:12:25 pm

Not really considering that Burners.me is obviously an overly sensationalized exercise in self importance run by anti-BMOrg troll.

Thanks Burn.Life for actually making an effort to inform Burners! Cheers!

phantom diorama

6/17/2015 04:10:46 pm

Well put. My thoughts exactly. So happy to see a voice representing thoughtful analysis instead of reactionary ranting.

MrKnowIt

6/19/2015 03:53:18 am

More complaints in the history of BM? Yes, but who did the complaints come from? The complaints seem to have all come from the same entity or group of people that obviously had it out for the Dancetronauts. Most of the written complaints were from a group of friends made to look like it was sent by random people. Several have been found to not even have attended Burning Man. This was clearly an inside job to satisfy someone's wants.

Travis Richards

6/16/2015 12:10:37 pm

Email me for the ENTIRE thread of e-mails with Terry Schoop. As for the the early pass not sure why that's a still an ongoing topic or relevant? We already addressed that with DMV and we had the early pass removed within 24hrs of it it ever appearing on our fundraiser ... that was set up by a 3rd party who was not aware that you can't do that. And as such NO transaction or offer ever took place, what are we guilty of here? And DMV received a total of 32 formal complaints, I can forward you those to. Funny we weren't given any copies of those complaints or did DMV provide that in 2013, we were giving a warning that we were too loud, but given the instances in which. As I have explained, out of 6 years, 100's of DJ's we had our first big fuck up when he started plugging his album during his set. This past year we took the warning seriously, which is why out of 40+ scheduled hours of music and 7 days... we had 2 hours we BLEW IT.... Alien Siege and Burn Night. TOTALLY NOT ACCEPTABLE. So we're taking the year off, it's our slap on the wrist. And yes, we can easily resolve this, by having no microphone and turning it down or off, during these burns and performances. Nobody communicated to us that we were blowing it before or during.... only AFTER. But we certainly have been made an example and except our wrong doings more than ever and know better. We learn and improve for the future. We have no intent of purposefully ruining anything and we are truly sorry to anyone who we negatively effected or annoyed. If you were at the Burn, Alien Siege or part of the Fire Conclave, please write us, give us a chance to apologize personally.

Dr. Yes link

6/16/2015 12:14:34 pm

Hi Travis - I msg'd you on FB prior to this comment, using my real name, btw.

I appreciate that you guys are genuinely remorseful about the mistakes made, like I said in the article. I also think that it's a shame you couldn't be given feedback more quickly than you apparently were, since that's what would let you shore up any weak points in what you're doing much more quickly and easily.

Anyway, just a general friendly hug coming your way from me, and I look forward to partying with you, near you, or within hearing distance of your MV in 2016!

Burnkitty

6/16/2015 12:53:16 pm

Hi Travis,

Just curious as I have now seen you make this similar comment on another blog about messaging you for the full email chain, but why not just post the entire email chain where everyone can read it for themselves?

Also, I have read that in 2014 your MV license was probationary because of noise complaints during 2013. Is this true? And if so, doesn't that mean that you had received warning that your sound levels needed to change before 2014? Even if people didn't complain to you right when the issue was occurring in 2014 or 2013, if you were told you had a probationary license after 2013, that seems like reasonable warning to me.

Lastly, why was a 3rd party running your fundraising campaign if they had no knowledge of the event? And if they had no knowledge of the event, how would they even think to offer EA passes as a perk?

I'm not trying to beat up on you, I just think these are legitimate questions.

6/16/2015 03:07:22 pm

Hi Burn Kitty,

Happy to answer your great questions.

1. Because I am not posting or writing these articles or, am I a blogger. Our resolve was trying to be made with the DMV in private, which is why I am willing to share the emails that shows the entire story of exchanges. Even after reading, this truth doesn't set us free or make us not guilty of our offenses. It just gives you the full story to help stop all of the assumptions & judgements being made. People need to get their facts straight. WE HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. WE ARE GUILTY. YES WE HAVE SOLUTIONS... That will have to be proven, hopefully next year.

2. 2013 we did receive a warning letter about noise volume, but that was it and very vague. It came with no details, or the actual instances in where or when they any complaints were received, or the actual complaints attached. Hard way to learn. Even now, DMV's final response does not acknowledge our resolve or propose any solutions of their own. We took 2014 very seriously, which is why last year in 7 days, 35+ Dj's, 40+ hours of scheduled music... we fucked up 2 of those hours... 1 at Alien Siege and 1 during Burn night which was a double whammy hour because of the Dj making shameless plugs. It's not that Dancetronauts are TOO LOUD, it's that we are too loud and shouldn't be blasting music during Art Burns or Performances and in a large congregation of burners. If 5,000 people can hear our music out of 65,000... we're going to have a lot of people out of that 5,000 that do not like or appreciate it. Which is why during those events we need to turn it DOWN, OFF or be ISOLATED somewhere else. Which is something we can certainly fix, not only moving forward, but even at the time, if, it had been communicated to us then... NOT AFTER, we would have complied. We tried hard, I am sorry if I come across as defensive, it's very hard when I come from a perspective of knowing and working with 30 other people who are a part of this & otherwise do an amazing job putting on what we do. 1 of our Dj's took that away for A LOT OF US, it sucks, so please excuse if our passion may overshadow any sincerity or acknowledgement. It's a huge responsibility and undertaking. We're far from perfect and we're still learning. We certainly fell short last year and screwed up... which is why we're not going this year. There's no fight, or us whining and complaining. But I do feel compelled to respond to people with the facts and the truth and hopefully get a chance to talk to anyone who we upset. It's not going to fix or change what has already happened, but we still want to try to make it right and prevent it from happening in the future.

3. We we're short last year from our fundraising, or lack there of, and possibly not going to make it to the playa last year because of money. A newly significant other in our group, who is not a Burner, but been around while we work on this project year round. She came up with a great idea on how to help, so she set up a Gofund me fundraiser. It was not an event. She enthusiastically set it up, did a great job, almost perfect... but she did include 1 early pass in the one of the descriptions of the that particular donation package... it wasn't being individually auctioned off and it was immediately taken down when it was brought to our attention, which was in less than 24hrs. BECAUSE YES I DO KNOW BETTER and it was removed from the description. Guilty of no such transaction. You think a 1 month go fund me campaign went on with that on it, as we promoted it to the entire burner community, and you're just finding out about it now, lol. I don't know what people think we are getting away with here?

I hope you this answers your very legitimate questions, I appreciate you asking and giving us the opportunity to answer them.

Travis
[email protected]

Drake

6/16/2015 03:49:56 pm

"we had 2 hours we BLEW IT.... Alien Siege and Burn Night."

Actually, that's not quite true. I was there Thursday night when you had that massive event with all the other art cars piping your music through their sound system. It was awesome!! So thank you for that!!
BUT, you had a DJ also plug multiple times that night his album on iTunes. That was a drag and after a while, my group just decided to walk away and explore the playa.
So these were not isolated incidents. That it happened on three different nights and that you're trying to minimize the issues raised is a bit disingenuous. Just accept that you blew it, take your punishment and move on. We'll all be happy to see you on the Playa this year (without your art car) and the following (with)...

Mike

6/16/2015 03:58:15 pm

Drake

We have fully accept our punishment, we have moved on, sorry if we offended your group in anyway.

Mark

6/17/2015 03:00:52 am

👆What he said!👆

Onnoleigh Sweetman link

6/16/2015 06:21:26 pm

Very well put Travis

Pink

6/16/2015 07:20:46 pm

It was reported on another site that the offensive DJ burn night was none other than Philthy Phil, captain of Dancetronauts. Should he have not known that plugging an album is not only just not cool, but particularly offensive to burners?

And what in the world made you think that showing up and blasting during someone else's art piece was in any way appropriate? It's saying 'our gift is so much more important than anyone else's'.

maladroit

6/16/2015 08:18:53 pm

Stop complaining that you weren't told during the event. You were. You just didn't feel it was worth listening to the opinions of random people who couldn't do anything to you. Too bad you can't just blank-stare your way out of a DMV rejection.

Donna

6/17/2015 12:53:48 am

Obviously it was impossible for any of you on the car to hear all the people around us at the burn screaming at your car to "shut the fuck up." Not only did I have to leave the man burn before it was over due to a raging, volume induced headache, your car is the primary reason I told my husband I wasn't interested in attending in the future. I have no idea if my complaint was one of the 32 but I did write an email upon returning home. My biggest complaint was that the fire dancers in front of us couldn't hear the drumming that was happening right next to them and had to switch to the music you were playing instead. That's a lot of hours of practice down the shitter and just plain rude.

Madison

6/17/2015 07:35:13 am

You honestly ruined my entire groups burn night including mine for some time. Thanks

Karma

6/17/2015 08:15:21 am

Are you intentionally trying to be a drama queen Madison? They have a kick ass sound system and like to use it. I along with THOUSANDS of others love dancing to it. I respect your ability to like whatever you like, but stop crying- your better than that.

And Dancetronaughts from one of the MANY burners who loves your system and like it LOUD- THANK YOU for all the things you do do right!!! (and all these butthurt people are not a fair representation of the entire family on the playa)

Good News Bear

6/17/2015 08:32:39 am

Travis,

Like you last year, our vehicle has received a 2015 conditional license due to sound violations. And like I am sure you were feeling before 2014, I nervous about an idiot DJ screwing things up for our crew. I hope it brings you some solace that this incident I helping others reign in artists who don't understand 'decommodification'.

The first night our new vehicle passed DMV in 2013, we ran out of power for our lights before sunrise. We parked next to you and our crew enjoyed some of the best dancing ever as you crushed it and we all welcomed the sun.

I hope to share many more fond memories with you guys in 2016.

to y

6/17/2015 10:30:55 am

You guys are scum anyways...you don't care anything about the burn or the community. Your entire goal is to make money from everyone. Your DJs suck, your business practices are deplorable and you prey on people. Screw you

6/19/2015 03:16:55 am

Except we haven't profited and we operate out of debt. Costs us a lot of money and work to do, build, bring and do what we do. We fundraise this way, just like EVERY THEME CAMP fundraises.... we just dont do it every week in San Francisco. Throwing private parties for burners, profiting off of burners, promoting our theme camp DJ's, albums and merchandise and posting even flyers in the Burner community every week. Yeah you got us!!! Running a loosing business for 6+ years...

Tony B. link

6/17/2015 12:58:55 am

Oh, THAT car. I never saw it up close. I ran the F away every time it was within 100 yards. Glad that the DMV took action.
There are other loud cars that occasionally piss me off, but then there are a few that would do serious hearing damage. And they are getting numerous enough that it is getting tough to go look at art on deep playa and chat with friends...
I can live with a certain amount of being chased away from installations here and there, but when they park at one for an hour at a time... and there are nearly as many cars pumping music as there are installations, the event is transformed.

I wonder if the drivers/dj's on some of those even KNOW that a lot of those installations have sound as a part of the art?

Tony B.

6/17/2015 01:08:50 am

PS- not everything I said here applies to this particular car - the latter half of my 'rant' is generally speaking. I feel better now, at least.
I *DO* hope that they come back with increased awareness in the future, I'm not suggesting that sound cars should not be allowed.

I do propose though, that common sense will keep a car/camp out of trouble if the rules are ever unclear. Ask yourself "is this what everyone wants, or am I imposing myself?" before you do something.
If you can be heard from a mile away, or for that matter if people can not interact within 400 yards of you, then please do not place yourself where crowds are or might want to be.

sam

6/17/2015 01:38:32 am

Thank you for supplying another side to the story. burners.meh is just a troll site that pretends to be some subversive element but is just an angry gossip rag with no real value to the community. Nice to see Travis showed up to continue his defensive ranting about how they are innocent victims.

6/17/2015 01:42:18 am

You're welcome!

Travis

6/19/2015 03:19:21 am

The only thing I have to defend is all the attacks, assumptions and ongoing judgements. Other than that we already have pleaded guilty to what we are in violation of and we know what to do moving forward. Thank you for continually trying to punish us, even though we have gotten away with and gained NOTHING!

Hylbyly

6/17/2015 03:18:53 am

This discussion has been an education for many of us. As a mutant car owner/ builder, I can personally appreciate the level of effort and resources that Dancetronauts invests. This investment occurs well in advance of the anxiety of the permitting process, and is motivated by the desire to share the fruits of our labors with the citizens of Black Rock. The unfortunate circumstances discussed here will help us all to conduct ourselves in a manner commensurate with this event we cherish. I truly appreciate the efforts of BRDMV as well. Their's is a daunting task. We look forward to seeing you all....

6/17/2015 04:40:37 am

Forwarding the emails to burners.me, a site that only exists to antagonize the borg, doesn't really make me believe that their claim of being sorry. Making it a big public mess to try and drum up support for them and against the DMV was never going to help their cause.

Kdubz

6/17/2015 05:04:53 am

SLAP!

Ms. Andrist

6/17/2015 06:43:21 am

Just read the 5,000-word whine fest posted on Burners.me and wanted to vomit. This article is much more balanced (and grammatically correct, but that's a different matter).

Seems there's too much egotism and self-importance permeating this Dancetronaut group. I'm sure some of them are nice people, and they're certainly not the only art car to pull this crap...but that doesn't diminish their responsibility. They should accept their punishment and learn from the experience.

Apologizing for multiple repeated infractions is a nice gesture but it doesn't un-ruin someone's burn. Name-dropping famous DJ's to get out of trouble proves they really don't "get" it. Burning Man isn't about celebrities and self-promotion. If that's what you're into, go to EDC, Coachella or one of the countless other commercial concert/festivals out there. Take your consequences like an adult instead of starting a smear campaign against BMORG. That shit looks way worse than the original infractions you were banned for. Real talk.

6/17/2015 06:59:52 am

Ms. Andrist,

We have taken full responsibility. We have learned and know exactly what to do and not do moving forward. Perhaps news to you, Dancetronauts have received this notice and news months ago, as we had been trying to resolve this privately with the DMV since Sept/Oct 2014. We haven't started a campaign or petitioned against this, these are not our blogs or articles. This is not the negative publicity we have aspirations for. It's posts and comments like yours that just take away the resolve and forgiveness we are seeking. For not getting away with ANYTHING, why must I continue to defend and clarify all the other false accusations? The entire story & emails has been provided and shared BY US, with intent to move forward. We have faced and are continually serving the consequences, there isn't anything more you can take from us and we feel horrible. At this point, it just seems we can never be sorry enough, which SUCKS. And is also why we will not be coming this year, because we are guilty charged. Real talk, WE FUCKED UP & OWN IT! Please accept our apologies and give us a chance to loose the mic and TURN IT DOWN FOR WHAT!? Anything that involves large congregation of people, live art performances and large art burns.

6/17/2015 07:24:24 am

There is always that element of "you are grounded until you can prove you are responsible!" isn't there?
Well, in this case, I imagine the grief will end when you are out there in 2016 and don't get in any conflicts/complaints. There are cars known in the community to have a good rep and despite having huge power, use it discretely.
A demonstration of that discretion at the nearest opportunity is probably going to set any records straight about how the camp really feels.
I guess until then, it's a rough crowd. Trying to defend it, or claim that you were not defending it is a tough row to hoe. Take it as you will, but perhaps enduring a bit of that is part of accepting responsibility for screwing up. I doubt you'll end up with the last word no matter how many times you reply, as there are folks who are going to go after you regardless, and even more who simply read the article and no comments (since there are so many) and comment in addition.
Best of luck - FWIW, I believe in parole and reintegration. Not that my vote counts for a lot, but understand that being critical of the past actions of your camp does not make a critic out to get you.

Best of luck, and see you in 2016. I'm on the every other year schedule myself!

6/17/2015 07:59:52 am

Couldn't you just have sound at your camp instead? Maybe it wouldn't be as loud as the car, but is volume the only point? I hope not. Honestly, my favorite places to dance are the smaller camps in the city streets. You can get pretty loud even without a placed camp, and most people wouldn't complain. Instead of pouting in the corner, adapt and bring something different. You could still have the go-go dancers and most of the lights. If you kept it within reason, you'd be the most popular camp on your street, for sure. Something like a smaller Pink Mammoth (my favorite place to dance at BRC).

6/17/2015 07:56:57 am

"Civic Responsibility"... Wow it sounds so "default world"... :(
Ugh I want to throw up, it feels like a nightmare with no escape. Where my escape suddenly became a dark dreary library of endless bookcases full of legalese...
Maybe this is just not the event for me anymore.

6/17/2015 07:58:57 am

What makes Burning Man special to me, and different from 'festivals' is that it's a city. So I think that 'civic responsibility' is actually really appropriate. We have our own mores and customs, but that doesn't mean we don't have any rules at all or any responsibility to each other out there.

6/17/2015 08:04:22 am

Does "social capitol" or "respect" sound better?
Cause to me,
"F them, I'm going to do what ever I want" sounds terrible.

Last time I was there an old friend and I were running AWAY from various sound cars for an hour or two, more or less playing reverse whack-a-mole on the deep playa so we could talk. At some point I made a comment about "Noise cars" and she laughed and said
M: "You know, I always figured if I ever got to the point where I was complaining about hte music at BM, then I was too old for the event."
I replied: "True, but we have them on a technicality... THAT IS NOT MUSIC!"
There was much laughter as we approached the crew of the next car that pulled up next to us, accosting them with crazed looks and surly (fake) attitudes. "That's it, kids, it's all yours now, we're too old for this shit." and running away giggling. They just looked at each other like "huh???"

We ran off to try to find some other cool art to sit by and talk.

Rinse, repeat... all night.

So maybe I'm the one not fit to go anymore. It is why I quit going every year. I'm not getting out of it what I used to. It's not what it once was for me personally. Maybe I'm the one out of place. Maybe "noise cars" is what the community really wants.

Shrug.

Hope to see you in 2016.

SB link

6/17/2015 04:59:13 pm

My campmates and I have ALWAYS complained about the music, except for a very few years that were not dominated by horrible techno and disco. We've settled in the 'burbs by the 7:30 plaza where we can actually listen to what we play.

I'm all in favor of busting stupidly loud dance camps, though. I would prefer it be done with subversion rather than top down authority, but whatever.

Hmmm

6/19/2015 01:19:58 am

maybe you should read the 10 principles and not attend BM.

We are a community and culture. Respect for each other seems paramount.

I've read a lot of the thread. Dancetronauts seem evasive and full of justification and bs.

Like they have a full PR team doing damage control.....

ballz

6/20/2015 11:26:44 pm

JJ

Civic Responsibility is one of the ten principles, it's just as important as Radical Inclusion and Decommodification to the burner ethos.

http://burningman.org/culture/philosophical-center/10-principles/

What, did you just come to Burning Man for the raves? That would make you a spectator and not so much a participant.

Didn't you even READ anything you were given by the Org when you bought your ticket? Well then, shame on you.

I'm thinking maybe the event ISN'T for you, because you don't value the things that make our community unique.

I'm not here to jump on you, but consider what I just said, think about it, and you'll come to see that the Dancetronauts deserved their time out, because they acted without giving a shit.

If you are displeased with the legal "it's not fair" drama that has come out of this situation, you have the Dancetronauts to blame for that, by publicly crying on social media that they are the victim of a witch hunt, they are possibly forcing the Borg to create some new rules/laws that we don't already have.

Consider that, and you'll see that it's not the Borg or participants that are the reason for new rules, it's actually the Dancetronauts selfish "I'm going to do what I want, fuck the rules" attitude that is responsible.

I love EDM and it has become a color of the canvas that BRC is painted on, but the event has changed so so much for the worse the past several years because those coming to Burning Man are not paying attention to the ethos. People are leaving trash on the playa like never before, they are ATTENDING, not participating, and they don't even bother to read the 10 principles.

It might just ruin the event for all of us. Wake UP people.

6/17/2015 08:02:24 am

The fact that politics and Burning Man are used in the same sentence really saddens me.

6/17/2015 08:16:05 am

Personally I liked the burns in the past when there was less amplified sound. Humans' social interactions, and collective social consciousness is highly dependent on voice cues, both linguistic and not linguistic. When deafening sound is persuasive, it puts up a barrier to group social behavior. It renders everyone effectively deaf, and dumb.

Marcs

6/17/2015 10:17:54 am

This just reminds me of why BM politics and out of control attendance growth has kept me away from the playa since 2006. The more bodies you throw into the mix, the more likelyhood everything is going to turn political, authoritarian, and drift further from the original spirit of BM. I am by no means a radical, anarchist, or troublemaker but BM today feels a world away from its humble beginnings. Perhaps its time to give it all a rest and move on like so many old burners already have., We will always have our memories to keep us smiling.

HoneyBee

6/17/2015 10:22:12 am

Responsibility is the price of freedom (Elbert Hubbard).
A little courtesy towards your neighbors and other Burners isn't too much to ask. You blew it.

Burner w/o a Name

6/17/2015 10:35:57 am

Burners.me did some good coverage of Sherpa Gate and The BORG's pathetic response to that event. Burners.me's article about the Dancetronauts is one of the biggest pieces of garbage that I've ever read and the article's comment section is equally painful. I for one am worn down by the combination of The BORG's poor decision making, Burners.me's editing-free diatribes and how BM ticket scarcity and BM jumping the shark are impacting the event and community. I'm glad that I had a good run in BRC before the dusty shit hit the fan big time. :(

alien

6/17/2015 10:55:34 am

Fuckyerburn

Austin Heat

6/17/2015 11:16:54 am

All the troll accusations, now supported with facts?

http://burners.me/2015/06/17/too-loud-for-burning-man-part-ii-dictators-in-a-dysfunctional-dystopia/

loni

6/17/2015 11:31:14 am

Typo in article. First "2016" should read 2015".
Other than that, thank you for the article. Very informative.

6/17/2015 12:38:01 pm

Fixed, thanks!

Sporeganic link

6/17/2015 06:59:11 pm

Man, I can't believe these newbs are being so rude and angry about this. It's ducking burning man. The way some people are responding to this and talking to feed their ego is worse than the damn "offenses" that took place. It's burning man. Get a grip on yourselves people. You sound like f*cking children complaining about someone who is bugging them. Let the penis envy go and give these guys a break. I don't know the dancetronauts personally, but they seem 1000x's cooler than the BMOrg teet sucking author of this post and the DMV reps.

Get over your issues and let's move forward here.

Bryan

6/17/2015 08:19:37 pm

I don't know why i just wasted like 10 mins reading this negative, childish blog.

Tony

6/17/2015 10:57:48 pm

Or another 5 responding to it? (Face-palm for irony...)

crunkykd

6/18/2015 09:36:13 am

I'd heard that the motto at BM was "Remember, Safety Third". I guess that means that in the midst of fun you can and sometimes do get hurt. And when you do, it's often because of random non-repeating stuff. Here's a current example. Better luck next time.

TelePrompTer

6/18/2015 03:36:49 pm

im not part of dancetranauts crew but: Us Vegas peeps are crazy and used to no rules and 24-7 party time!What did you expect 😁 But on a more serious note I see a big divide and perhaps a future playa civil war between the old school burners from the early 90s and the peeps who've made the event what it is today who came in later and boosted ticket sales to 70k and profits. Last year we had a camp that wasn't even a sound camp and we were placed directly next to the temple burners- like seriously when I woke up I would see the temple masters out of our window leaning against our RV. Was cool to see and help with transporting temple pieces. All old school burners. We were following sound rules and not going over set decibel levels but had many old burners complain about the electronic music. Not the volume. I shouldn't say it bc he apologized to us but even the temple master himself went up and vandalized our art project with a sharpie saying "stop playing shitty music" or something like that. He apologized when our camp master chased him down (which was a funny site seeing an important old man from the burn community running from a chick!) We didn't put in a pussy complaint! but it still set in that the old peeps hate electronic music in all shapes in forms. And especially trap! But the guy has a last name of Best bc he is awesome and was sincerely sorry for what he did. But just watch. The battle will get more bitter. 50-70 year old burners don't wanna hear our crazy music. For christs sake their ears are more sensitive.

teleprompter

6/18/2015 03:45:33 pm

Just to add to it in defense of the temple crew. They got dicked on placement last year. The people in charge should know these guy shouldn't be sandwiched in between planet earth and Rowdy ass theme camps. Come on placement crew. Luckily we dealt with the situation I mentioned above like real neighbors and like compassionate people and we were all great buddies in the end. I appreciate the complaint system but it reminds me of ratting on people and can be dealt with on playa with discussion and love. Much love To the temple crew and thanks for showing us how you live and make that amazing art and letting us help. Did anybody else know that the temple is built on playa in pieces and they are working the entire burn While we are partying? Many many props and love your way guys!

6/18/2015 03:49:09 pm

Yep, most of the big art is built in pieces and then assembled on-playa. It's not feasible to bring much of it in one piece - too big - and it takes months or years to build some of it. The Temple crew this year, for instance, is over in Oakland working 12pm-10pm M-F and 10 am-10pm on Saturdays and Sundays building the Temple. (Different crew from last year though.)

Eric O

6/19/2015 03:22:06 am

Although, I seem to be like 90% of everyone else who wants to chime in, yet wasn’t even actually there at the present time. But we all want to be heard, everyone loves to complain, bitch and bring the default world into Burning Man. Our opinions are so little heard in the real world, that we abuse them in a community that actually listens.

The irony, bureaucracy, hypocrisy and singling out these guys is just sad for the entire ethos of Burning Man. They have been made the scapegoats of much larger issues and now every burner who is against their ‘radical style of choice and self expression’ of Electronica Dance Music or loud music in general, makes it okay to banish or attack their non-hippie images or aesthetics even. I couldn’t think of a theme camp who dedicates, fits and takes their theme more seriously? It is strange, when people become involved in anything just to push their own agenda, or is it? Although I don’t like the music or even the pretty girls, these guys & gals bring something to Burning Man that nobody else does. It shouldn’t really matter what I think or if I LIKE IT or not… it’s not about them, it’s not you, and it’s not about me either! It’s about all of us expressing ourselves and being radical for a week! The whole event is a shit show. And if you don’t like it then kick playa and get lost elsewhere til you find something you do enjoy! Stop acting like you’re so important that you have somewhere to be or god forbid you’re momentarily interrupted by somebody else at Burning Man!

DrTune

6/19/2015 06:40:19 am

Having been for the past 14 years I'm fucking sick of deafeningly loud art cars playing thumpa-thumpa-thumpa music. Personally I hate most of the stuff that gets played, and it's SO intrusive if you're trying to have a quiet, magical moment somewhere or in fact do anything that doesn't involve having your ears battered by someone else's idea of music. The only place for that is deep deep playa, not near art pieces or camps.
Fuck your shitty derivative music tastes and fuck your childish need to blast everyone else with it.

ART CAR OWNERS: See those people at the burn, or watching the sun come up at the trash fence, or sitting by the art piece...when you drive up in your booming vehicle? We don't think your music is cool, we're wishing you would fuck off and stop spoiling our moment.

Teleprompter

6/20/2015 10:27:50 pm

Thump a thump music! Ha ha. Let's all play David Bowie. I'm down. Thing is it's a city and everyone listens to different music just like in real world. It saddens me to see such hatred and anguish in your comment especially after 14 years at the burn. It doesn't matter what music people are playing. I might not enjoy super 24/7 trance coming from 9pm side so I limit my time over there. Bring ear plugs! Yes that's in the survival guide. Just like I probably wouldn't think it too cool- Seeing you and your 14 year camp mates sitting in lawn chairs outside your RV all crusty and feeling self entitled to the city bc it's been 14 burns-sitting there and just judging or being on this website doing so. Do people just become more uptight as they go to more burns or is it a part of getting older? I imagine by my 14th burn I won't even go out dancing. But I'll never hate on people for music styles.

grumpy pants

5/22/2016 06:27:35 pm

9 time burner here. Its the VOLUME, not just the music and its not just age! I have not liked super loud since I was early 20s! Play your EDM at the MANDATORY, set by BMORG levels. That means normal car stereo level, not giant arena volume. And don't drive deep in the residential areas E-K streets 3-10 am blasting volume!

Blizzful

6/23/2015 06:33:11 am

Travis is cool - I met him in his early 2011 year - he is an artist, like all others who build and bring to the Burn. Like all our builders, every year he worked on his shit, and every year it got bigger and badder. If your shit is sound, that often means louder and louder - he had the means and made it happen - It is a rare tech-builder who doesn't go bigger...If no one handed him RULES THAT HAD TO BE FOLLOWED, of course he just kept doing his own thing - it's Burning Man 'fer chris'sake. Now he has his RULES, and his PUNISHMENT and he can re-up or not. But all the whiny "you ruined my Burn" BS? Everyone has some "you ruined my Burn" story - stop making it sound like Travis has some corner on the piss-off market. I spun fire in Conclave 2 years in a row - it is hard to focus on choreography for hundreds of reasons. When THE MOST COMPLAINTS EVER REGISTERED turns out to be 32 total? Squeaky-wheel syndrome is not a good fit with the Playa. Will def miss dancing my ass off to Travis' creation.

CapnJoe

7/28/2016 12:06:18 pm

Resistance is FUTILE, the BMORG!!!

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